Ian - Sussex Posted 7 August , 2009 Share Posted 7 August , 2009 Am trying to find out about the Auxilliary Patrol Service in WW1. What exactly was it? I seem to have got stuck on Armed Trawlers being part of it but not sure what they did. Was it escort duties, mine clearance? HMS Borneo features on a local war APS memorial as being sunk by a mine off Beachy Head. Just wondered if anyone can shed any light on the circumstances. Many Thanks Ian Sussex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spithead Posted 7 August , 2009 Share Posted 7 August , 2009 HMS Borneo features on a local war APS memorial as being sunk by a mine off Beachy Head. Just wondered if anyone can shed any light on the circumstances. Ian Grimsby trawler Borneo GY115 November 1914 Requisitioned by the Admiralty as a minesweeper. Armament: 1 x 6 pounder gun. Admiralty number: 809. Thursday 1st February 1917 Rescued an aircraft that had crashed in the Channel after its engines had failed. The trawler towed the aircraft to Portland. Fate: Sank by mine off Beachy Head on Monday 18th June 1917. The mine was laid by UCI7 on the same day. Regards john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian - Sussex Posted 7 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2009 Ian Grimsby trawler Borneo GY115 . The mine was laid by UCI7 on the same day. Regards john Thank you so much.That's an impressive start for a first post. Excuse my ignorance - what does UC17 stand for? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spithead Posted 7 August , 2009 Share Posted 7 August , 2009 Thank you so much.That's an impressive start for a first post. Excuse my ignorance - what does UC17 stand for? Ian UC Coastal Mine Layer Class Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian - Sussex Posted 7 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2009 UC Coastal Mine Layer Class Regards John So - does this mean that the mine was laid for the benefit of the German Navy, but was detonated by a UK ship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 7 August , 2009 Share Posted 7 August , 2009 Ian, Trawlers taken into naval service did a number of things, including minesweeping, patrol work, and convoy escort duty. UC 17 was a German coastal minelaying submarine of the UCII class. That description is a bit misleading as UCIIs also had considerable torpedo attack capacity and an 88mm deck gun. See also: http://www.uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/871.html Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian - Sussex Posted 7 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2009 Ian, Trawlers taken into naval service did a number of things, including minesweeping, patrol work, and convoy escort duty. UC 17 was a German coastal minelaying submarine of the UCII class. That description is a bit misleading as UCIIs also had considerable torpedo attack capacity and an 88mm deck gun. See also: http://www.uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/871.html Best wishes, Michael I've found out in the past hour - Borneo is 11.5 km south west of Beachy Head light house, bearing from light house 188 degrees 40 metres of water Clearly the German submarimes were coming very close to the UK to lay their mines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 8 August , 2009 Share Posted 8 August , 2009 Welcome to the forum The Germans tried to get as close as practical, that's where submarines proved to be beneficial; the Uboat war was not confined to torpedoes. You might be interested in this files at the UK National Archives, Kew; they are original documents not online: ADM 137/3254 Loss of H.M. Minesweeper BORNEO Ships logs ADM 53/35838 BORNEO 1914 Dec. 31 - 1915 Mar. 2 to ADM 53/35848 BORNEO 1917 Jan. 14 - 1917 Mar. 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian - Sussex Posted 8 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 8 August , 2009 Welcome to the forum The Germans tried to get as close as practical, that's where submarines proved to be beneficial; the Uboat war was not confined to torpedoes. You might be interested in this files at the UK National Archives, Kew; they are original documents not online: ADM 137/3254 Loss of H.M. Minesweeper BORNEO Ships logs ADM 53/35838 BORNEO 1914 Dec. 31 - 1915 Mar. 2 to ADM 53/35848 BORNEO 1917 Jan. 14 - 1917 Mar. 24 Many thanks for the references. I'll have to arrange a visit to Kew. One thing puzzled me on a previous post - How did they know which submarine had laid the mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 8 August , 2009 Share Posted 8 August , 2009 Ian, The war diaries (KTBs) of most U-boats survive and contain the location of the minefields they laid. It's thus a straightforward matter to compare the location of where a ship sank to the location of minefields. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 8 August , 2009 Share Posted 8 August , 2009 Ian - Welcome to the forum. Some more details on Borneo, her loss and casualties. Cheers, Terry 18 June 1917 H.M. Trawler BORNEO Admiralty No.809 211 gt. 115.4ft. x 21.6ft. 1 x 6pdr. O.N. 122719 Built 1906 by Cook Welton & Gemmell, Beverley for Grant & Robinson, Grimsby. Feb.1906 Registered Bornio GY 115 (Grant & Robinson). Nov.1914 Requisitioned by the Royal Navy, converted for Minesweeping. Skipper William Allan RNR 18 June 1917 Borneo and Grenadier (Adm'y No.714, former Grimsby trawler Grenada GY 323), were sweeping off Beachy Head. Several mines were swept up during the day, one brought to the surface was detonated by rifle fire from Grenadier. At 5.45 pm there was a large explosion under Borneo, she broke up and sank rapidly. None of the crew survived. Lieutenant A. G. Philips the senior officer in charge of sweeping, was criticised for an error of judgement in continuing to sweep the area at low tide. Mines had been laid in the area earlier that day by the German submarine UC 17 (Werner Fürbringer). [TNA: PRO ADM.137/3254] Casualties: ALLAN, William, (30) Skipper, RNR CWGC Link Husband of Barbara Allan, of "Braehead," St. Monance, Fife. BELL, David, Ordinary Seaman, RNCVR, VR 2704 CWGC Link Canadian. NEWHAVEN CEMETERY CADWELL, William, (23) Seaman, Newfoundland RNR, X 1375 CWGC Link Son of the late James and Eliza Jane Cadwell, of St. John'S, Newfoundland. HARRIS, John, (38) Seaman, RNR (Act/2nd Hand), C 2273 CWGC Link Son of Nicholas James Harris, of Brixham; husband of Alice Harris, of Paradise Place, Brixham, Devon. HUDSON, Bertie, (22) Engineman, RNR, TS 886 CWGC Link Son of Mary Hudson, of Hull, and the late John Hudson; husband of Olive Hudson, of 61, South Parade, Anlaby Rd., Hull. KILMINSTER, William, (21) Trimmer, RNR, TS 4838 CWGC Link Son of Mr. and Mrs. W. Kilminster, of 8, East North St., Aberdeen. NEWBY, William Wilson, (20) Deck Hand, RNR, DA 6003 CWGC Link Son of William Wilson Newby and Eliza Ann Newby, of 38, Rickman St., Kirkdale Liverpool. SCOTT, Joseph Edward, Trimmer, RNR, TS 1117 D S M CWGC Link Husband of Elizabeth Scott, of 144, King Edward St., Grimsby. THOMPSON, Robert Dick, (23) Ordinary Seaman, RNCVR, VS 2744 CWGC Link Canadian. Born at Lesmahagow, Lanarkshire. NEWHAVEN CEMETERY WILEMAN, Edgar, (37) Deck Hand, RNR, DA 2002 D S M CWGC Link Brother of Susanna Wilkinson (nee Wileman), of 85, Wellsted St., Hessle Rd., Hull. YATES, Frank, (22) Engineman, RNR, ES 106 CWGC Link Son of Mrs. S. G. Yates, of 116, Grafton St., Grimsby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian - Sussex Posted 12 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 12 August , 2009 Ian - Welcome to the forum. Some more details on Borneo, her loss and casualties. Terry Many thanks for going to the trouble of providing me with this information. What with the other responses I have received, the detail has far exceeded what I expected to find out! Just wonder if I can push my luck ans ask if anyone has any info on HMT Grenadier in connection with a casualty J Bain - d. 22 Sept 1917 Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 12 August , 2009 Share Posted 12 August , 2009 Ian - naval-history.net (Don Kindall) lists J. Bain: "BAIN, John, Deck Hand, RNR, SD 2380, drowned". HM Tr. Grendier survived the war. Here's J. Bain's CWGC Link Cheers, Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 13 August , 2009 Share Posted 13 August , 2009 Ian, a little late possibly but here are some details of HMT GRENADIER minesweeping duties nothing similar on BORNEO ; BARLOW Edwin 78WSA Chief Skipper RNR 84Q073 H.M.T. Grenadier Senior Naval Officer Newhaven 17.04.18 Gazetted Minesweeping Operations 01.04.17 - 31.12.17 DSC During his service as Leader of Trawler Minesweepers, has shown a keen and intelligent knowledge of his duties, and has carried out the clearing of minefields with much ability. A most efficient and reliable officer. Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wightspirit Posted 13 August , 2009 Share Posted 13 August , 2009 Grenadier's log is available at TNA - I have reference ADM53/43525 (in connection with the part played by Grenadier in discovering hundreds of bodies and floating debris following the loss of the Mendi in February 1917). The log concerning your casualty will be in the series of ADM53/***** which can be ascertained online according to the relevant date. Dave W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 13 August , 2009 Share Posted 13 August , 2009 IAN, Log for GRENADIER for stated date of 22 September 1917 ; ADM 53 / 43526. Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian - Sussex Posted 13 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2009 Many thanks everyone for you help. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia 1 Posted 12 October , 2009 Share Posted 12 October , 2009 To: IanSussex Dear Ian, Regarding your post of 12/08/09 - "Just wonder if I can push my luck ans ask if anyone has any info on HMT Grenadier in connection with a casualty J Bain - d. 22 Sept 1917" John Bain was my great, grand uncle, so if there is any information I am able to help you with, please ask. I hope you don't mind if I ask you why you are looking for this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 12 October , 2009 Share Posted 12 October , 2009 Welcome to the forum Lucia, Do you have a copy of his service record? Microfiche copies of Bain's service card are held at the UK National Archives in BT377/7. The originals are at the Fleet Air Arm Museum. His Royal Naval Reserve medal entitlement will be on the microfilmed medal roll in ADM 171/120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian - Sussex Posted 12 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 12 October , 2009 To: IanSussex Dear Ian, Regarding your post of 12/08/09 - "Just wonder if I can push my luck ans ask if anyone has any info on HMT Grenadier in connection with a casualty J Bain - d. 22 Sept 1917" John Bain was my great, grand uncle, so if there is any information I am able to help you with, please ask. I hope you don't mind if I ask you why you are looking for this information? Lucia, Pleased to have made contact with a relative of J Bain! My interest is as follows........... I've volunteered to lead a guided walk of the Newhaven Town Cemetery (Sussex) on some dates to be arranged - like when I've finished the research. I'm going to talk about some of the Great War casualties. If you've got a photograph of him, it would be good to be able to show it on the walk. Any additional info about him would also be useful. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia 1 Posted 13 October , 2009 Share Posted 13 October , 2009 Welcome to the forum Lucia, Do you have a copy of his service record? Microfiche copies of Bain's service card are held at the UK National Archives in BT377/7. The originals are at the Fleet Air Arm Museum. His Royal Naval Reserve medal entitlement will be on the microfilmed medal roll in ADM 171/120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia 1 Posted 13 October , 2009 Share Posted 13 October , 2009 Hello, thank you for welcoming me and for your help, it was very kind of you. I will take a look at the National Archive website and see what I can find out. Lucia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia 1 Posted 13 October , 2009 Share Posted 13 October , 2009 Hello Ian, What a lovely thing to do - to remember. I don't think any of my family have ever been down to visit my uncles grave. Yes I have a lovely picture of him in his naval uniform. I also have his medals and postcards he sent to his mother. If you don't mind giving me your email address I can scan them and forward them on to you. Lucia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian - Sussex Posted 13 October , 2009 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2009 Hello Ian, What a lovely thing to do - to remember. I don't think any of my family have ever been down to visit my uncles grave. Yes I have a lovely picture of him in his naval uniform. I also have his medals and postcards he sent to his mother. If you don't mind giving me your email address I can scan them and forward them on to you. Lucia Many thanks for that - I'm on ian_sussex@yahoo.co.uk (that's an underscore between n and s). Am quite happy to reciprocate and send you a photo of his headstone. He is also named on the Auxiliary Patrol memorial in the same cemetery. Look forward to hearing from you. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 15 October , 2009 Share Posted 15 October , 2009 I will take a look at the National Archive website and see what I can find out. Unfortunately Lucia there will be few details on their site as the records are not online. I'm not sure how helpful their shop online service would be, they usually expect to copy the whole of the document. If you click 'request this' on the link below you can follow the links to get an estimate. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...F=ADM+171%2F120 Alternately, you could a request in the Document Look ups section of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now