clive_hughes Posted 7 August , 2009 Share Posted 7 August , 2009 Hi, I have (via Terry) recently put forward a man for official consideration as a non-commemorated casualty (not part of IFTC project as he died after discharge). I am in hopes that this status, at least, can be granted him. However, I would like to see if his grave can be located, using the local expertise and advice of the pals on this Forum. This would greatly please his descendants, and myself who knew his late daughter and have already tried some avenues without success. He was ALFRED ELLISON McDOWELL, born West Derby District, Liverpool 18 Feb 1881, son of James (b.1843, L'pool) and Mary (nee Lankenau, b.1851 L'pool) McDowell. Family name sometimes spelled McDowall and his birth is so registered. He was the sixth child out of eight, but the earlier five all died before they reached age 12. His grandfather James McD b. Scotland 1803, d. 15 St.Judes Place, West Derby (nd). Grandmother Elizabeth McD (nee Ellison) b. Cheshire 1809, d. 105 Canterbury Street, L'pool 1885. These details mentioned just in case he was buried with or near other family members. Family background, Presbyterian. Married Edith (Ann) McDowell (nee Roberts) at United Methodist Church, Walton early in 1911. Children were born at Ormskirk late in 1911, and Jan. 1915. Formerly a teacher; became a Journalist and from 1910 manager of a local branch of the Ormskirk Advertiser (possibly that at 1 Railway Street, Formby??). Also wrote for the West Lancs Coast Advertiser. Member of the Nat. Union of Journalists Southport Branch. Enlisted in the ASC at Southport 1 March 1915 (not using his middle name) as Private S4/065481. Address at that time was 26 Formby Street, Formby. It is quite possible that his wife and family left Formby shortly after and moved to Walton; nearer to her family? Third child born Walton Jan. 1916. He served in France from Sept 1915 but was invalided to the UK March 1917 with TB. Discharged Southport 23 May 1917. Death cert.: died of TB at the City Hospital, Park Hill, Toxteth Park on 12 September 1917 aged 36. Wife regd. as informant, resident at 146 Stuart (or Stewart?) Road, Walton, Liverpool. His wife remarried, and all information other than the above has been lost. His obituary appears in the Formby Times for 15 September 1917 and the Ormskirk Advertiser 27 Sept 1917, but without mention of where the funeral was held or where he was buried. Thorough searches for burial entries have been made for the large cemeteries at Toxteth Park (right next to the hospital where he died) and Anfield, nil return. It is possible that he was buried at Formby, but his family were West Derby and his wife's links were to Walton. Any advice or assistance gratefully welcomed. The only prize for successful location I can offer is the knowledge that a specific grave can be recorded as a War Grave (maybe with stone), rather than just his name on the Brookwood UK 1914-18 Memorial. Thanks, LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 8 August , 2009 Share Posted 8 August , 2009 It might be worth contacting the local history society. They may have somebody researching the surname. Also they frequently have transcriptions of Memorial Inscriptions of graveyards which are not pubished. Can't speak for the Liverpool one but their site is http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/ Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 8 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 8 August , 2009 Thanks Peter, I'll certainly have a go at contacting them and maybe the Liverpool Family History Society as well. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 8 August , 2009 Share Posted 8 August , 2009 LST_164, Walton? Longmoor Lane Cemetery? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 9 August , 2009 Share Posted 9 August , 2009 http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/images/tcm21-82107.pdf try this Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 9 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 August , 2009 Thank you folks, will be trying these leads shortly. Any other advice welcomed. Someone suggested Allerton Cemetery to me today, as being not far from West Derby (which i see has its own cemetery also). LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 10 August , 2009 Share Posted 10 August , 2009 LST A few pointers from a local: -The road is more likely to be STUART than Stewart, if it is Walton. -West Derby is a village area within Liverpool's boundaries but was also a very large registration district covering a wide swathe of 'outer' Liverpool and beyond. -Although Toxteth Park embraced both the cemetery of that name and the adjacent hospital, I do not think that the hospital you name as in Park Hill is the same one. -There are many cemeteries in and around the city - registers are mostly on film but take a good deal of time to browse, even with a date of death. -Has the Liverpool Echo, or Evening Express been searched for a death announcement, where the burial might be detailed? -Can you give any more about "St Jude's Place, West Derby"? The only church of that name I can find was in the centre of Liverpool. However, I believe that the saint is the patron of lost causes! -I am a member of the L'pool Fam.Hist.Socy and read its forum. If you can edit down your enquiry a little I am happy to post it there and liaise here. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 11 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 11 August , 2009 Hello Daggers, thank you for those useful pointers. I agree with STUART Road Walton on the basis of current online maps: it was just that it was also spelled the other way in at least one of the documents. I'll also happily agree that West Derby can be more than one defined area. My difficulty obviously lies in determining which area the sources are talking about. W.Derby on his birth certificate is probably the Registration District rather than the "village", I suppose. His Scottish grandfather James McDowall dying in "15 St.Judes Place, West Derby, Liverpool" might be either. All that info came to me in a pedigree chart supplied by the family, so I can't vouch for it. The death certificate in Sept 1917 states he died at "City Hospital, Park Hill, Toxteth Park UD". The person who researched the cemetery registers at Anfield and Toxteth Park Cemeteries (the late lamented Graham Maddocks) said that the latter burial ground literally backed onto the hospital in question? He also checked the Liverpool Echo for the relevant period, but not the Evening Express. I would be most grateful if you could post this query with the Liverpool Family History Society- please feel free to edit the original information as you see fit, in order to post it. I have been trying to make contact with Formby today, including a local undertakers who apparently maintain a large database of cemetery information; and the United Reformed Church who are the descendants of the Presbyterian Church of which he was a member. Both were very helpful. I now gather that the only cemeteries in Formby itself are the two Church of England ones. There was no Presbyterian Church there, so if he attended locally it had to be St.George's Southport or at Warren Road, Blundellsands. Alternative burial sites would be the Congregational Church burial ground at Chapel Street, Southport, or the Southport (Cemetery Road) and Birkdale Council Cemeteries. And that's always assuming he was buried in that part of Liverpool... Thank you again for your generous assistance. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 11 August , 2009 Share Posted 11 August , 2009 I will have a go at an edit for the LFHS forum in the morning. There are some keen hounds there who will enjoy the challenge. Graham was from the wrong side of the water and probably did not know how many hospitals there have been around here! Early night now, to get posting tomorrow! D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzy Posted 12 August , 2009 Share Posted 12 August , 2009 Don't forget besides the main cemeterys there are numerous burials in churchyards in the locality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 12 August , 2009 Share Posted 12 August , 2009 The topic has been launched on the other Forum. Watch this space. [They were especially grateful for help here with tracing a small ship where a father and son were lost, which helped to clarify their entries on a church memorial.] D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 13 August , 2009 Share Posted 13 August , 2009 Short update on McDowe/a/ll: The Formby war memorial has no names [apart from the donor's, I believe]. An informal local roll of honour was discovered quite recently and has been copied with one placed in Formby Library [a large sheet of paper, including enlistments from the first two years of the war]. It includes Alfred McDowell, ASC, Formby Street, Formby. Formby's burial registers are lodged at the Lancs Record Office, Preston, and are to be searched, as are other local newspapers etc. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 15 August , 2009 Share Posted 15 August , 2009 Here are the details for McDowell, traced by a member of the Liverpool Family History Society Forum: He is buried at Kirkdale Cemetery, Longmoor Lane, Liverpool L9 9EN. Cemetery plans can be found by Reg No: 67160 Division: C Date of Burial: 17th September 1917 Age: 36 Address: 146 Stuart Road Parish or District: Walton Mode of burial: Private Section: 5 Grave No: 208 By whom ceremony performed W.J.Sexton. A plan of the cemetery can be found: <http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Images/Kirkdale%20Cemetery_tcm21-79220.jpg> Ian Riley was correct [see earlier post]! Daggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 15 August , 2009 Share Posted 15 August , 2009 Here is another offering from the LFHS members: Liverpool Echo 14th September 1917 McDowell September 12th at Parkhill hospital Private Alfred McDowell the dearly beloved husband of Edith McDowell 146 Stuart Road (late of Formby) . D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 15 August , 2009 Share Posted 15 August , 2009 Here are the details for McDowell, traced by a member of the Liverpool Family History Society Forum: He is buried at Kirkdale Cemetery, Longmoor Lane, Liverpool L9 9EN. Cemetery plans can be found by A plan of the cemetery can be found: <http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Images/Kirkdale%20Cemetery_tcm21-79220.jpg> Ian Riley was correct [see earlier post]! Daggers Shucks! Just a hunch. Daggers, thanks for crediting my guess. You deserve considerably more credit for persistence and legwork. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 16 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 16 August , 2009 Folks, just accessed the Forum for the first time in a couple of days. So he's been found at last!! That's an excellent result and you're to be both thanked and congratulated daggers. I will pass this info on to the family, and see whether there is an extant (civil) gravestone. As and when he is accepted as an official casualty, I'll be able to tell the authorities where he's located and also who are his next of kin in the event they want to talk about headstones etc. Just knowing where he is will please the family. Please thank the LFHS people also for their efforts in finding McDowell. I have said this before, but this really is a brilliant site and the knowledge and willingness of its members to help never ceases to amaze me. Many thanks, all of you for your assistance LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 16 August , 2009 Share Posted 16 August , 2009 LST_140 If he was Presbyterian, he's likely to be buried in one of the 'General' plots quite near my great grandparents. See the plan link provided by Daggers CLUNK CLICK If you can come up with a grave reference, I will take a look when I next go to look at the condition of their grave. A lot of stones are either down or have been laid down for H&S reasons. However, I am not likely to go up before late October and you may be in Liverpool before then. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 22 December , 2011 Author Share Posted 22 December , 2011 Just to update you who helped or have an interest, CWGC have told me this week that an inspection of Alfred E.McDowell's grave site at Longmoor Lane has produced a report that the burial is adequately marked (I take it that means his name etc. is legible on the civil style headstone). As a result he has been moved from the online UK Book of Remembrance to the main database. My thanks once again for locating this man - it's appreciated by his family too. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 22 December , 2011 Share Posted 22 December , 2011 Clive That's good news. If I can pick up the thread on the LFHS site I'll pass it on to the helpful members there. EDIT to add: Message passed to the FHS forum members. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 Name: McDOWELL, ALFRED ELLISON Initials: A E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Army Service Corps Unit Text: "A" Coy. Age: 36 Date of Death: 12/09/1917 Service No: S4/065481 Additional information: Husband of Edith McDowell, of Liverpool. N.B.: Recent research has shown that Private McDowell is buried here. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Div. C. Sec.5. Grave 208. Cemetery: LIVERPOOL (KIRKDALE) CEMETERY There we go all sorted now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 23 December , 2011 Share Posted 23 December , 2011 I had to smile at the apposite name of the officiating cleric - Sexton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC78 Posted 6 August , 2020 Share Posted 6 August , 2020 (edited) Headstone for Pte Alfred McDowell at Liverpool (Kirkdale) Cemetery, grave CE 5/208: CWGC: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/75228772/ALFRED ELLISON McDOWELL/ Note the incorrect dates of death for Alfred and also his brother-in-law Edgar Roberts, who I believe was 2nd Lieutenant with the Dorset Yeomanry: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/450611/EDGAR ROBERTS/ Edited 6 August , 2020 by PaulC78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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