Roger H Posted 6 August , 2009 Share Posted 6 August , 2009 Can anyone provide the location of "Horseshoe" in front of St.Julien and Fortuin in April 1915? The War Diary of 5th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment reports that on 26th April they "advanced and occupied line of trenches in relief of the London Regiment in Horseshoe". I cannot trace a "horseshoe" (in that particular location) on my NA Trench Map atlas and neither did a search on this forum shed any light. Thanks in advance. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 8 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 8 August , 2009 Bumping this up - in hope of a response!! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 8 August , 2009 Share Posted 8 August , 2009 Roger Not sure which 'London' Regiment you are referring to but there is a map in Graham Keech's book on St Julien Ypres (Battleground Europe series) which shows the 12 London Rangers in a location north of the Wieltje - Gravelstafen Rd Approx TM position Zonnebeke Map 28 NE Sq 13 a. However no mention of Horshoe. BernardP PS local bookshop sold my remaindered version of the book for less that £5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 9 August , 2009 Share Posted 9 August , 2009 There are Horseshoe Trenches named in "Rats Alley" but a lot further south nowhere near St Julien. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 9 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 August , 2009 Bernard: Thanks - I ordered this book (cheaply from N and M press) on Friday and should now be in the post. I am away for the weekend, but will check that reference when I get home tonight. John. Similarly, my NA Trench Map had several references to "Horseshoe" but none in the area I am looking at. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 9 August , 2009 Share Posted 9 August , 2009 Roger, Are you sure Horseshoe is a trench ? I'm only asking because a search with Google led me to : http://www.archive.org/stream/battlegloryo...00tuck_djvu.txt Text of "Battle Glory of Canada". Use your search in the text with the word horseshoe, and it will lead you to pages 108 and 115. I couldn't help noticing that on two occasions (and we are talking about the same period, and the same battlefield it seems to me, Battle of St. Julian), there is mention of : positions in the shape of a horseshoe. Sorry if my posting only makes you smile. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 9 August , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 August , 2009 Aurel - to the rescue again! No, I wasn't sure that "Horseshoe" was a trench - clearly a wrong assumption on my part. The text in the book fits exactly - to the days - of the period I was talking about. I am more than satisfied that the "horsehoe" mentioned in my first post (and the war diary) relates to the positions in the shape of a horsehoe. When the book "St Julien" arrives, I will have a good look. Thanks everyone Roger PS - Aurel, I am glad you told me the page numbers, using the search was a nightmare!! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorre Posted 9 September , 2022 Share Posted 9 September , 2022 Is their not a trench called Horseshoe trench on the Somme battlefield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorre Posted 9 September , 2022 Share Posted 9 September , 2022 7 minutes ago, Lorre said: Is their not a trench called Horseshoe trench on the Somme battlefield? Footballer Donald Simpson Bell was awarded a V.C. by his actions near Horseshoe trench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 10 September , 2022 Share Posted 10 September , 2022 The Horseshoe referred to in the OP is the shape of a position that the 12 London (Rangers) took up on 25/04/1915. I downloaded the War Diary WO 95/128/2. The Rangers were GHQ troops attached to 84 Infantry Brigade of 28 Div. On 24/04 the Bn was in a position 800 Yds from St Julien but the line was reformed. "Spent night (presumably 24/25) making trenches on lines shown in Map 2 which had originally been dugouts". Unfortunately there is no Map 2 in the WD. The WD of 84 IB (WO 95/2276) has a report by the OC of 1 Suffolk who also took command of the Rangers. (Ancestry Piece 2276 p 349). On 24/04 The combined force was ordered by 85 IB, under whose orders it found itself, to take up a position east of the farm in C 29 d. It was then ordered to attack Fortuin but when it got there was directed by a Canadian Colonel towards D 2 with all speed. The force took up a position in front of the road that ran east to west in D 13. The right of the line was held by Canadians and Durhams with the right flank thrown back as there were reports of Germans in the area. The thrown back right flank no doubt gave it the shape of a horseshoe but I have not seen it referred to by that name anywhere other that 5 Bn Yorkshire Regt. These two maps, which I have cropped, are in the WD of 85 IB (WO 95/2278). Saint Jean (Ancestry p 540) and Zonnebeke (Ancestry p 360). The Ypres Roulers railway is a guide to combine the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorre Posted 11 September , 2022 Share Posted 11 September , 2022 19 hours ago, brianmorris547 said: The Horseshoe referred to in the OP is the shape of a position that the 12 London (Rangers) took up on 25/04/1915 Do You by any chance know something more about the horseshoe trench near La Boisselle (Somme) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 11 September , 2022 Share Posted 11 September , 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, brianmorris547 said: The thrown back right flank no doubt gave it the shape of a horseshoe but I have not seen it referred to by that name anywhere other that 5 Bn Yorkshire Regt. Acording to the 9th Bn Yorks war diary horse shoe trench was captured by the 9th Bn on the 5/7/1916 WO-95-2184-3_1 Ray Edited 11 September , 2022 by RaySearching typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 11 September , 2022 Share Posted 11 September , 2022 2 hours ago, Lorre said: Do You by any chance know something more about the horseshoe trench near La Boisselle (Somme) Ray The Horse Shoe Trench where 2/Lt Bell was in action in July 1916 is shown in X 21 b on this map from the July 1916 WD of 23 Div HQ General Staff. Courtesy TNA WO 95/2167 (Ancestry p 571). On p 590 there is a narrative of the Operations but page 2, which would cover the attack on Horse Shoe Trench, is missing. Lt Bell is mentioned on page 3. I will have a look in the WD of 69 Infantry Brigade. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 11 September , 2022 Share Posted 11 September , 2022 And this is from the IGN 1:25 000 Bray Sur Somme 2408 E for comparison. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 11 September , 2022 Share Posted 11 September , 2022 (edited) The July 1916 WD of 69 Infantry Brigade mentions Lt Bell who was assisted by 15958 Cpl H Colwill and 16748 Pte J Batey. Both of these men received the DCM. There are Op Orders which show Horse Shoe Trench was in X 21 and Reports on Operations. There was also this map which names the British Trenches in blue and shows Horse Shoe Trench as yet un named in Red. TNA WO 95/2183 Edited 11 September , 2022 by brianmorris547 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorre Posted 12 September , 2022 Share Posted 12 September , 2022 Thank You Brian for the maps. Surched a lot on the net and in WW1 trench map but all the results where negative. So these maps are great! On 11/09/2022 at 17:50, RaySearching said: Acording to the 9th Bn Yorks war diary horse shoe trench was captured by the 9th Bn on the 5/7/1916 Thank You Ray for this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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