Kinmal Riots 1919

[Guest Wern Bach]

I have followed the Kinmel Riots for some time now, the reason is that people died on British soil, killed if not murdered by our own people, after serving Britain in one of bloodiest wars of all time.Why the secrecy, what happened, what is the truth?

The stories that soldiers ( MP's ) Military Police from Liverpool were drafted in to Kinmel to address the upsurging unrest at the the camp ( to which most if not all Canadians considered to be no less than a POW camp because all they really wanted was to get back home to Canada ) yes, there was unrest, and the army wanted the unrest stopped.

The MP's had a field day of fun, using what ever methods they deemed neccessary to suppress the Canadians' unrest. The Liverpool MP's, well, they had a riot.

So, as history records, many Canadians died with flu. Yes, that's right, flu. However, how do you explain the gunshot and bayonet wounds to the Canadian soldiers, from of the stories I have heard the Scousers ( that's what people from Liverpool are called ) had what the Americans call a good days turkey shoot.

So where is the truth?

I can easily commute to Kinmel and the church, if anyone wants photographs of the church and cemetery, or any of the headstone memorials, some books, web site addresses

contact me

[Chris_Baker]

Can you substantiate your accusations?

[Broznitsky]

most if not all Canadians considered to be no less than a POW camp because all they really wanted was to get back home to

many Canadians died with flu. How do you explain the gunshot and bayonet wounds to the Canadian soldiers

I haven't heard of Kinmel referred to as a POW camp by anybody before.

Many Canadians did die of flu. A few were shot and bayoneted during the riot and its aftermath. This is, I believe, quite well known.

Like Chris, I would be interested in some substantiation of the "Scouser" theory.

Peter in Vancouver

[Andrew Hesketh]

Croeso i forwm, Wern Bach.

Glad you want to know more about the Kinmel Riot of 1919. Search this forum for many very good posts concerning it. From these you will find a lot of useful information that will dispel the nonsense given to you by the 'Scousers'.

As far as I know no Liverpool MP's were brought in.

Many men DID die of flu.

The riots claimed 5 lives, two of which were non-rioters.

Hwyl,

Andrew

(P.S. If you can get to Bodelwyddan, pop in to the church and buy a copy of the Putkowski booklet - that will tell you what happened)

[Alan Lines]

Like Peter this is the first time I have heard the camp referred to as a P.O.W camp, but it's probably a fair comment when you consider how the men there were treated. There were plenty of excuses for not getting the men back home, we never had the same problems or delays getting them over here.

As an aside my father in law often talks of how the Canadians rioted (possibly too strong a word?) in Aldershot at the end of W.W.2. for similar reasons.

[Guest redrum]

I think it is wrong to denigrate Liverpool which fielded many thousand good troops to the slaughter of the various fronts with unsubstantiated views as this.

Incidentally the term "scouser" was not in vogue in 1919 for a Liverpudlian.

[Guest lone piper]

I have followed the Kinmel Riots for some time now, the reason is that people died on British soil, killed if not murdered by our own people, after serving Britain in one of bloodiest wars of all time.Why the secrecy, what happened, what is the truth?

The stories that soldiers ( MP's ) Military Police from Liverpool were drafted in to Kinmel to address the upsurging unrest at the the camp ( to which most if not all Canadians considered to be no less than a POW camp because all they really wanted was to get back home to Canada ) yes, there was unrest, and the army wanted the unrest stopped.

The MP's had a field day of fun, using what ever methods they deemed neccessary to suppress the Canadians' unrest. The Liverpool MP's, well, they had a riot.

So, as history records, many Canadians died with flu. Yes, that's right, flu. However, how do you explain the gunshot and bayonet wounds to the Canadian soldiers, from of the stories I have heard the Scousers ( that's what people from Liverpool are called ) had what the Americans call a good days turkey shoot.

So where is the truth?

I can easily commute to Kinmel and the church, if anyone wants photographs of the church and cemetery, or any of the headstone memorials, some books, web site addresses

contact me

[Guest lone piper]

I am a 72 year old ex marine and WERN BACH's version of what happened at Kinmel Park Camp can only be described by a word we often used - BULLSHIT. He states that he 'has followed the KINMEL RIOTS for some time now ...' He could only have gathered his information by 'following the local muck cart'.

His comments were insulting to myself, a SCOUSER and the BODELWYDDAN FIVE, the five Canadians who died on the 4th March 1919 at Kinmel Park Camp. However Mr Bach can console himself by my telling him that he is not the only one to have engaged in muck spreading over the years. Most intelligent readers can ignor the gossips and usually the gossip will stop. In the case of Kinmel Park it did for some years but unfortunately some modern day tour operators decided to revive the issue to entertain their coach trip clients. Bochures and websites were printed inviting foreign tourists to visit BODELWYDDAN and 'find the graves of the mutinneers. The shame was that a Canadian veteran returned to Canada after such a coach trip to tell his comrades that he had seen the graves of THE CANADIANS WHO HAD BEEN SHOT FOR MUTINY.

He had believed what the coach driver had told him.

I STOPPED this trade in myth and forced the tour operators to withdraw their insulting BULLSHIT. I did not do this by printing the first things that came to my head. I did it by producing official documents and FACTS. The apologies I received were in themselves not sufficient to satisfy me.

At 11am. on Saturday the 11th.November 2006 I will be visiting the Kinmel Park Camp and playing a piper's lament in the spot where the five men died. I will place a wreath and then in uniform march down to St.Margaret's Church to pay tribute at the graves of the four men still buried there. I will have by then sent a wreath to Canada to be placed on the graves of the fifth man who was 'taken home' by his relatives.

Perhaps I could invite WERN BACH to join me for the week end in November. It is possible some of the stories still abound in the locality. A pint at the local in BODELWYDDAN. We may hear the tramp of the feet of 'the ghost army' as they pass on their way home from a night out in nearby Rhyl. Perhaps we could visit the old camp and hear the voices in the still visible training trenches. We could billet ourselves in the BODELWYDDAN CASTLE where the ghost of 'the 1919 soldier' is often seen. I can not vouche for the stories but perhaps they will suit WERN BACH's train of thought.

There will be quite a few people joining me at my low profile ARMISTICE DAY at BODELWYDDAN. It will not be a gravd affair - just a group of people laying a few wreaths, saying their own silennt prayers and beside the words WE WILL REMEMBER THEM we will hope that at last THE BODELWYDDAN FIVE can REST IN PEACE .

Bill Jenkins