chris.wight Posted 17 April , 2004 Share Posted 17 April , 2004 I was looking through the on-line help at the National Archives of Canada, and came across a link for courts-martial conducted by the CEF. From looking at the records, and browsing the on-line help devoted to that section makes it obvious it is still being developed. The NAC deserves a pat on the back for continuing to put all these WW1 records on-line. Here's the link. I came across a Captain (link) with the P.P.C.L.I. who had been court-martialed, link . He was discharged due to rheumatism, and neuritis, then signed up again, link. He must have been reduced in rank consequent to the court-martial. Could someone tell me what offence 19 was? NAC have also put up a database for soldiers of the Boer War, link. The on-line help accompanying the section is very interesting. I saw Sam Hughes in there in one of the medal registers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 17 April , 2004 Share Posted 17 April , 2004 I believe 19 means drunkeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 17 April , 2004 Share Posted 17 April , 2004 Hi Chris: You may have just provided the identity of an unnamed man who Agar Adamson (PPCLI) wrote to his wife about. I've been wondering who this man was as it is one of the very few occasions when Adamson had been reluctant to name someone in his letters. Here's the two references: Crater line, 5th January, 1917 My dear Mabel, We got through the Court Martial yesterday. Our officer, whose trial has been hanging fire since the Somme, was found guilty. The sentence will be a secret until it is confirmed by the General Commanding. Crater line, 18th January, 1917 My dear Mabel, We are being relieved tonight at nine o'clock and jolly glad we shall be for a bit of rest, although it will not amount to very much as the new training will be very hard owing to reorganization of Infantry units. I have a most uncomfortable duty to perform tomorrow. One of our officers has been dismissed from the service as an officer, for drunkenness. I have to promulgate the proceedings of the Court Martial before all the officers. The officer then has to have all his rank and regimental badges removed from his uniform and handed over to a military policeman. He then becomes an ex-officer, is taken prisoner to the coast and given his option to enlist as a private to France. If he refuses, he is sent to England and forced into the service. He is not a bad chap, but his drink has been his downfall. He has been with me since February 1915 and this is the third time he has been tried by Court Martial. Thanks for your post Chris. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 17 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2004 Thanks James. Is there some source which gives an explanation of what the offense numbers represent? Garth, thanks for the additional information - definitely not an easy situation for Adamson. I'll have to keep an eye on the files to see when they add the relevant scanned documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 17 April , 2004 Share Posted 17 April , 2004 I checked two of my men whose records were poor. One fellows offence is listed as 15. I know he was sentenced to death but later was back at the front (lucky devil). The other fellow has two offences listed: 12(1a) 16 June 17-17 July 17 and 12(1a) and 24(2) 28 Aug 17 - 10 apr 18. I know he deserted in England and eventually was apprehended and sentenced to 18 months. Finally shipped to the front but had a brief stay - to 50th Bn 4 Oct 18; to hospital 6 Oct 18; died of pneumonia 18 Oct 18. Any of the Pals know what the numbers 15, 12(1a) and 24(2) indicate, or more to the point is there a master list somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 17 April , 2004 Share Posted 17 April , 2004 Thanks James. Is there some source which gives an explanation of what the offense numbers represent? . Chris and Terry, I posted a partial list in a previous thread. You can find it here: http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=11337&hl= I had plaintively begged for a real expert to post an authoritative list, but I haven't seen one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 17 April , 2004 Share Posted 17 April , 2004 Excellent! That's a great help. Now if I can find out what 24 is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 17 April , 2004 Share Posted 17 April , 2004 Excellent! That's a great help. Now if I can find out what 24 is... 24 seems to be Loss of equipment . Go to the Courts Martial data base and search on offense. Some have a description although most do not. Go through them one by one until you get lucky. This is doing things backwards, but that is what they invented computers for! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 17 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2004 That's great James - thanks! I had conducted an internet search to see what I could find without any success - part of the problem is getting the right keywords. Hopefully when the Archives expands the on-line help for intepreting the results, they will give a detailed listing for the various numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 30 May , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2004 Garth, I think I have the final bit of evidence to link this fellow to Adamson's unnamed man. I realised the London Gazette announced court-martial decisions involving officers who were dismissed from the service, and had a look. Anyway the Gazette announcement said the officer had been dismissed from the service on January 19th, 1917 which fits in with what Adamson says in his January 18th letter. The announcement was made in the February 20th, 1917 London Gazette, link . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 Hi Chris: It looks like the PPCLI doesn't talk about their dishonoured offices; he's not listed in their official history's nominal roll. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Alexander Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 As a follow up to Garth's note, if said officer was re-enlisted as a private, what would his unit posting have been? They surely could not return him to the PPCLI. And, what would his medal entitlement rank be listed as? The practice was that highest serving rank was used on the medals. What would it be in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 31 May , 2004 Share Posted 31 May , 2004 I have a complete list of Offences in Respect of Military Service, Section 4 -41 and Section 155. E-mail off Forum and I will send it to you, it is quite a large file. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.wight Posted 1 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2004 Garth, looks like you really do become a non-person when you are dismissed from the services. Bill, he was assigned to the 1st Depot Battalion 1st Central Ontario Regiment, so at least he escaped going back to the PPCLI. I'd love to know if he did end up overseas again - I might just order his papers some day. I wonder what the point would be in putting his previous release down as rheumatism/nephritis as the officers at the depot would have access to his previous file (wouldn't they?). Good question re the medal entitlement, maybe someone else has run into a similar situation, and could answer. Thanks John . I'll send you an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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