Plastic crosses? no more wood?

[bkristof]

Hi,

i was amazed last time i went out to "buy" me some popy crosses.

They where in plastic now, some kind of imitation wood.

I was a bit disapointed because it looks so unpersonal and large scale production (to not say buisness).

Also i think the personal messages on the crosses will disapear as it is hard to write on the plastic ones. Or it fades very fast.

What do you people think about it?

[Glenn]

As a member of the Steering Group that decides the make up of these crosses there has been much discussion as regards the appearance and attributes of these LRX's (Little Remembrance Crosses). The embossed wording 'Remembrance' has been popular but the ability to write on them is questionnable. One can use markers that allow you to write on them but I agree the standard pen will not make an impression. However following much research and costings there is likely to be a change in the compsotion of these crosses and they hopefully will more closely resemble the orginal wood ones. It is a matter of cost, design and maufacture capability.

Regards,

Glenn

[bkristof]

i can understand it...

but still i liked more the real wooden ones.

but hey, we must accept progress.

[salientpoints]

There is a bit of an arguement about the fact the wooden ones are biodegradeable, whereas the plastic ones will be around forever, probably fade and get dirty over time and mount up?

My vote goes back to wood.

Ryan

[GRACELAND]

Yes must agree i perfer the wood it looks much better !, and in this age of trying to recycle all we can before we run out of space to dump our RUBBISH i think wood is better if got from renewable trees (cut and regrow for new crop)

then it will rot down and not cause the earth another problem !!!

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Hi,

i was amazed last time i went out to "buy" me some popy crosses.

They where in plastic now, some kind of imitation wood.

I was a bit disapointed because it looks so unpersonal and large scale production (to not say buisness).

Also i think the personal messages on the crosses will disapear as it is hard to write on the plastic ones. Or it fades very fast.

What do you people think about it?

Sadly it is all to do with Economics, & Logistics;The Poppy Factory @ Richmond Upon Thames is responsible for the production & assembly of all Poppy items sold over the Rememberance Period[Excepting the wreath laid by the Commonwealth Islands Representatives which is made especially by Kew Gardens from Tropical Flora;],The work,which was carried out by disabled WW1/WW2 Veterans up until recent years is now carried out by various employees with degrees of disability,under the remit of the RBL Poppy Factory;to enable them to earn a reasonable living,it is a year round production{I would recommend a visit if you ever get the opportunity it is an eye opener how such a small concern[about the size of your average supermarket]can produce the 1000000s of Poppy Epemera needed throughout November!They have a small museum & a very nice Naval Victoria Cross,DSC,Group on display!}Ever easier methods of production to enable the workers to build the poppies/wreaths & crosses as efficiently as possible mean unfortunately that modern synthetic materials have to be utilised.However you might find that a few Poppy Selling areas might have a few Wooden Crosses left as old stock,I have a number myself which as a HPOA for my RBL @ Guyhirn Cambridgeshire;I am using up as required{If you wish to ensure a supply for 2004s Celebrations,a Donation in favour of "The Royal British Legion" " Poppy Appeal" sent to myself will garauntee you some wooden ones from my stock}

[Desmond7]

Sales of such items raise finance for a charity which does a huge amount of welfare work.

However, I would make the following point.

There is something unsettling about plastic crosses which will remain an environmental problem forever being placed to commemorate men, many of whom have no known grave and are, as they say, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

I fully understand the need to maximise funds and I have thought long and hard about even posting on the subject - especially after reading the informative contributions from people who have been at the sharp end of RBL work.

Could I ask if some other material such as recycled paper produced in a 'hardboard' form was considered. Perhaps the 'paper' option was just too expensive?

Des - Sincerely and not provocatively. This is a very delicate subject deserving of a good discussion.

[bkristof]

Desmond 7,

that is why I started it

I don't like the plastic ones. But i also can understand the production problems.

Is it a solution to ask a fixed minimun price for the crosses instead of the free gift sysrtem? Just an idea...

[Guest]

Personnally i found the simple wooden cross most appropriate for

the purpose it was intended. A pseudo wood effect plastic cross

does not seem to me to have the same reverence.

As part of the remembrance i, as on many wooden crosses i have seen,

used to write, easily, regimental details, where buried etc. Now it is

not as easy unless, as some do, stick a label on. I think i will make

own in future and make an increased donation to the Earl Haig fund.

One does not always have move with the times.

[bkristof]

For me the wooden crosses also remind me to the big wooden crosses shortly after the war, even during the war.

And they are indeed more practical.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

   

Is it a solution to ask a fixed minimun price for the crosses instead of the free gift sysrtem? Just an idea...

Unfortunately as a charity the RBL cannot legally ask a fixed price for any items,if a donor puts 10p in the box & takes a wreath costing £15.00 to produce there is nothing 'we'[The RBL PA Collectors & organisers can do about it]Obviously this is an extreme proposition,but it could feasibly happen,mostly it is 50p & a handful of Poppies "for the Kids",but it does eat into the Poppy versus Donation exchange rate,that said most folk are generous,it is however the capabilities of the Small number of Makers that have to be able to cope with the production of the items easily,and the Legion who have to maximize Funding against Production & Raw Material Costs,@ the end of the day it is the Charity cause that is the prime concern,to assist those ex Service personnel @ their most vunerable time of life,It is good however that the Symbol of the Flanders Poppy can still be this emotive some eighty odd years after it initial founding,I cannot see such discussions taking place eighty years on regarding other charity "Flags"As a matter of personal preference I do admit the Wooden Cross is more esthetic,as was the old wire backed wax buttoned Poppy,endorsed "The Haig Fund",now replaced in more recent years by "Poppy Appeal" and a "model railway" Lamp Post Green Fixing,Such is progress but the end remains the same,long may it continue Apologies for wrong attributation of quote in 1st instance

[Desmond7]

I truly hope Harry is right about the longevity of the Poppy symbol. That is why making people aware of their family history and the global impact of world war one is so important.

It reminds us of how crazy, violent and, yes, courageous, people can be.

It also serves to remind the vast majority who remain stoically uninterested that they should put their hands in their pockets at least once a year. They can then make a difference to the quality of life for the living. IMHO

[spike10764]

I understand that the wooden crosses were more easy to write personal messages on. But progress is progress and if the RBL has to change process for the sake of economy- then as my old mum used to say"it's the thought that counts".

I obtained a new type cross recently, to place on the Thiepval Memorial in honour of my Great Grandfather, when I visit it this summer.

I ,too wished to add my own thoughts and some detail to the cross, so I went out and bought an indelible pen to use. Surely for the sake of remembrance others would be willing to do that ?

It's not ideal, but hopefully some sort of low cost biodegradable version can be produced soon( it's a shame the government can't sometimes show their green credentials in ways other than trying to price motorists off the road).

I can't find it in me to complain too loudly about the work of the RBL, but it can't hurt to bring peoples concerns to their attention.

[Clive Maier]

There are biodegradable plastics that could be used but I don’t think biodegradability is an important issue here. It takes quite some time for wooden crosses to rot away and they do not look great in the meantime. Wooden crosses need to be tidied away and properly disposed of when they have done their job. No reason not to do the same thing for plastics crosses. Landfill is not a good solution, whether or not the material is biodegradable. Organic material does not rot away as expected in landfill conditions. One can be absolutely specific about how long material remains intact in landfill; matter can be dated by newspapers that are readable after very many years in situ.

Waste plastics can be and are recycled into new plastics articles. It is a major argument against biodegradable plastics that they interfere with this process. The other argument against biodegradability is that throwing something down and leaving it to rot does not work any more. There are too many of us and we have too much stuff to dispose of.

When recycling is uneconomic, waste plastics can be used instead for energy recovery by incineration. The materials have a calorific value greater than that of coal and are used to fuel power stations and high-energy processes like concrete production.

[salientpoints]

Clive, it sounds like you should (or do?) work for the Government in the energy dept.

Whilst some of us still prefer wood, you comments are interesting and in plain english!

Now sell the same concept to the whole country and industry and we are on a winner...

Ryan