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Remembered Today:

An Officer with 2/10th Battalion the Royal Scots


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I have recently run across a brief, privately published wartime memoir by a young [probably] junior [probably] officer who identifies himself as serving with 2/10th Battalion the Royal Scots in Ireland then in North Russia in late 1918. There is a hint that he may have been on secondment from another regiment. His name is not published.

Given a list of officers serving with the battalion at the period in question I can probably work out who he was from other sources, but where to find any such list?

He survived the War so there is no help to be had from CWGC or Soldiers Died.

Help and advice gratefully received?

Thankyou

Eric

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Eric

The War Diary for the 2/10 RS in Russia is at Kew under WO95/5429 (part of the DVINA FORCE) and runs from Jul 1918 to Jun 1919.

You might get a short list from that.

Sotonmate

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From the Regimental History by Ewing, it's interesting to note that by the time of the Russian expedition, ". . . the battalion was composed of men most of whom had already seen considerable service abroad and it was officered chiefly by war-worn officers who had been sent home from France for a six months' rest. But while rich in war experience it contained many who were no longer fit for active service . . . . 'B1' men were retained for service and the necessary strength of 1000 was reached by bringing in troops from all battalions quartered in Ireland at that time." Some officers mentioned are; Maj. C.W. Whitaker 2i/c, Lt. Anderson, Capt. F.M.Scott, Capt. A.R. Rowland-Thomas, Maj. A.P. Skeil, Capt. J.A. Edwards, 2/Lt. H. Braham, Lt. Orr, Lt. L.W. Shute, Capt. J.A.W. Penman, Lt. W. Bassett (kia), Lt. J.M. Dalziell (kia), Lt. Col. Sutherland. I regret that's all I can offer for now. Antony

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  • 2 weeks later...

Eric

The War Diary had two folders in it,both for the 2/10 RS and both for Russia,one labelled "DVINA FORCE-The River Column" which runs from 31.8.198 to 1.4.1919,and the other "Archangel" which runs from July 1918 to June 1919.

This second folder begins in Dublin,where the unit assembled in Phoenix Park in the last two weeks of July prior to shipping out to the UK and then to Archangel.

After reading from Aug to Dec in the first-mentioned file,and noting the names of Officers as I came across them,I turned to the second. Page 1 has them all listed,as at shipping out from Dublin !

I have a digipic of this info,so on receipt of your e-mail,by PM,I will pass it on to you.

Sotonmate

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  • 2 years later...

Always interesting to revive an old thread

I am researching Capt F M Scott M.C of the Royal Scotts mentioned above in North Russia - my notes click

Scott went on to join the ADRIC and later the Palestine Gendarmerie. Can anyone add anything more on him? Either his war service or what happened to him after 1922 in Palestine

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From the Regimental History by Ewing, it's interesting to note that by the time of the Russian expedition, ". . . the battalion was composed of men most of whom had already seen considerable service abroad and it was officered chiefly by war-worn officers who had been sent home from France for a six months' rest. But while rich in war experience it contained many who were no longer fit for active service . . . . 'B1' men were retained for service and the necessary strength of 1000 was reached by bringing in troops from all battalions quartered in Ireland at that time." Some officers mentioned are; Maj. C.W. Whitaker 2i/c, Lt. Anderson, Capt. F.M.Scott, Capt. A.R. Rowland-Thomas, Maj. A.P. Skeil, Capt. J.A. Edwards, 2/Lt. H. Braham, Lt. Orr, Lt. L.W. Shute, Capt. J.A.W. Penman, Lt. W. Bassett (kia), Lt. J.M. Dalziell (kia), Lt. Col. Sutherland. I regret that's all I can offer for now. Antony

I had reason to look up the service record of one of the officers mentioned above, Lt L.W. Shute, who was a colleague/friend of my grandfather, at Kew. Shute was a student at Glasgow University, then a private in 5th Scottish Rifles, and was commissioned into 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers late 1915. He won a MC and was badly wounded (around 50 small injuries all over his body, so I think he possibly had a close encounter with a grenade) in 1916. He returned to the battalion in the summer of 1917. He fought in the "Polygon Wood" phase of 3rd Ypres, starting 26th Sept 1917, and was only one of four officers (out of 20) of 1st RSF not a casualty.

I had reason to take a close look at his records because an unpublished memoir by Capt W. Orr (kindly shown to me by his grandson, a forum member) indicates that of the four surviving officers of 1st RSF (Capt Orr, Acting Capt Revels, Lt Shute and 2nd Lt Gilmour) one didn't pull his weight in this action and was rather useless - since this could only be Shute or Revels (my grandad) I was keen to chase the matter up. I found that whilst Acting Captain Revels was promoted and remained as commander of A Company for another year, within a couple of weeks Lt. Shute was sent as Bombing Instructor to 3rd Division Base, and thence transfered to 2/10 Royal Scots in Ireland and Russia, so I'm fairly confident (and relieved) that this is who Orr was referring to.

I think that Shute may have been burned-out/lost his nerve, or perhaps he hadn't fully recovered from his injuries and should never have been returned to the front line. But I think it sheds a little light on the type of officer in 2/10 RS.

later edit: Interestingly it was not held against him, and Shute finished the war as a captain, still in 2/10 RS, and applied to keep his commission, successfully, until discharged on his 50th birthday in the late 1930s.

William

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Corisande

Sorry to have added the above rather irrelevant post to your thread - I hadn't appreciated that it was an old thread that you had revived in order to ask for information about Captain Frank Montgomery Scott MC.

From your notes you seem to know a great deal about him already - I came across him by accident when I was looking for 5th Scots Fusiliers in Gallipolli, and got sidetracked with 5th Royal Scots - there is a mention of several pages of war records in the "burned records" WO 363/S 116 and 117, but perhaps you have seen these? The National Archives website seems a total mess at the moment so I am unable to determine whether there is also a proper service record on him - I would have thought there is one somewhere - or whether these two pages are all that exists.

I will be visiting the National Archives at Kew in the next two months or so (most likely July) and I can add him to my list of officers records to look up if you like?

William

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Thanks for the offer, if you have time that would be great

I was looking at a photo of a number of Palestine Gendarmerie officers. They include Frank Montgomery Scott and also a "Lt Shute" without initials. Given their close working relationship in Ireland and Russia with R Scots, would Shute have ahd time to join Auxiliaries with Scott and then go o Palestine with him, before resuming a permanent commission? If you know what Shute looks like, I can email you a copy.

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Thanks for the offer, if you have time that would be great

I was looking at a photo of a number of Palestine Gendarmerie officers. They include Frank Montgomery Scott and also a "Lt Shute" without initials. Given their close working relationship in Ireland and Russia with R Scots, would Shute have ahd time to join Auxiliaries with Scott and then go o Palestine with him, before resuming a permanent commission? If you know what Shute looks like, I can email you a copy.

I know that he was considered rather boastful by his fellow officers (probably wouldn't show up on a photo :w00t:) , but he was tiny, just 5 feet 2 inches (so I would have thought he was too short for anything other than a Bantam battalion, but perhaps the territorials were not too bothered if the man was considered good) and that might show up in a photo. Also he wasn't particularly young - I have an idea he was born in 1885. Would this match your photo? But I get the impression that he took nearly a year to recover from his 1916 wounds, before going back to the Western Front in summer 1917, and it was Nov or Dec 1917 when he left for Ireland/Russia. I don't know if this fits in with your chronology re Palestine.

William

Later edit: After the war, whilst retaining his commission until 1935 (ish) he appears to have been in the reserve, and in the early 1920s went to South Africa where he was a mining engineer.

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My feeling is that he probably was the man, given the link to Scott in both R Scots and the photo of Palestine Gendarmerie officers. I'll do a bit more digging to see if I can prove it one way or the other

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  • 5 months later...

I add this for completeness on this thread

Eventually the information drifts in to me. The Lt Shute in my photo is not L W Shute MC of Royal Scots but Lt J L Shute M.C of R Warwicks. Joys of dealing with photos with no initials to a man's name

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  • 7 years later...
On 29/07/2009 at 18:51, sotonmate said:

Eric

The War Diary had two folders in it,both for the 2/10 RS and both for Russia,one labelled "DVINA FORCE-The River Column" which runs from 31.8.198 to 1.4.1919,and the other "Archangel" which runs from July 1918 to June 1919.

This second folder begins in Dublin,where the unit assembled in Phoenix Park in the last two weeks of July prior to shipping out to the UK and then to Archangel.

After reading from Aug to Dec in the first-mentioned file,and noting the names of Officers as I came across them,I turned to the second. Page 1 has them all listed,as at shipping out from Dublin !

I have a digipic of this info,so on receipt of your e-mail,by PM,I will pass it on to you.

Sotonmate

Вы позволите также ознакомиться с этими материалами?

 

В свою очередь, готов помочь всем, чем располагаю по истории событий 1918–1919  в Северной России.

 

С уважением,

 

Алексей Сухановский,

Архангельск.

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39 minutes ago, as_1919 said:

Вы позволите также ознакомиться с этими материалами?

as220766@yandex.ru

В свою очередь, готов помочь всем, чем располагаю по истории событий 1918–1919  в Северной России.

 

С уважением,

 

Алексей Сухановский,

Архангельск.

 

Will you also let me familiarize myself with these materials?

 

In turn, I am ready to help everyone with what I have in the history of events of 1918–1919 in Northern Russia.

Yours faithfully,

 

Alexey Sukhanovsky,

Arkhangelsk.

 

Alexey

 

I have removed your email address but you can communicate (preferably in English) via the forum's private messaging system. Click on a user name and then the envelope icon.

 

Regards

 

David

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2 hours ago, as_1919 said:

Вы позволите также ознакомиться с этими материалами?

 

В свою очередь, готов помочь всем, чем располагаю по истории событий 1918–1919  в Северной России.

 

С уважением,

 

Алексей Сухановский,

Архангельск.

as_1919

 

My 2009 files have been deleted and I no longer have the 2 pages of the Officer Lists for the Royal Scots, if that is what is being requested after all this time !

Thank you David Owen !

Edited by sotonmate
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2 minutes ago, sotonmate said:

as_1919

 

My 2009 files have been deleted and I no longer have the 2 pages of the Officer Lists for the Royal Scots, if that is what is being requested after all this time !

Очень жаль! Буду рад, если рекомендуете доступные дневники участников боев и их воспоминания о боях в Северной России. Спасибо!

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13 minutes ago, as_1919 said:

Очень жаль! Буду рад, если рекомендуете доступные дневники участников боев и их воспоминания о боях в Северной России. Спасибо!

Very sorry! I would be glad if you recommend the available diaries of the participants in the battles and their memories of the battles in Northern Russia. Thanks!

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Great photo Alexey. Did you get a picture of the river?

Also, do you know the British graves at Bereznik? I'm thinking specifically of 2/Lt John Morrison Dalziel d. 14/11/18, buried Semenovka (Bereznik) Cem. Extension; commemorated at Archangel Allied Cemetery. 

Dalziel.jpg.e35279bccf6dcf5b009d1d8e719973d2.jpg

Dalziel was killed at the forward outpost on the river bank. 

Edit: I see streetview has reached there too.

Edited by Neill Gilhooley
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В Березнике (Семеновском) было самое большое кладбище союзников. Место мне примерно известно, без знания четких границ, но сейчас могилы находятся под грунтовой строительной засыпкой толщиной 3 метра. Кладбище теперь расположено прямо в центре города. Если есть старая схема, то я смогу показать на фото более определенно.

In Bereznik (Semenovsky) was the largest cemetery of the allies. Place me roughly known, without knowledge clear borders, but now graves are under ground construction backfill, measuring 3 dam. The cemetery is now located right in the center of the city. If there is an old scheme, then I will be able to show in the photo more definitely.

2 minutes ago, Neill Gilhooley said:

Thank you - very obliging of you.

Моя любимая тема! My favorite topic! From 2004.

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I think I'd read it was overgrown, but clearly more than that now. Not a problem! The CWGC has a list with stone numbers, but that is all.

doc4574443.jpg.9d0756f6789b89f488e3ab36b59910df.jpg

Thanks again, Alexey.

Edited by Neill Gilhooley
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