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John Robinson Gunner 1st (V) battalion Invalids


taffy1

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John Robinson gunner R.G.A 1904-?1909 C company 1st (V) battalion

The Welsh Regiment Pembroke Dock.

Would he join same Regiment in great war.

He was living in Neath at time.

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Doesn't make sense how can you be a gunner(RGA) in the 1st Vol Bn, Welsh Regt or am I not reading it right? The latter were the precursor to the the Territorial and infantry to boot???? If he was still serving with the Welsh Regt TF battalion on the outbreak of the war in Aug 1914 he would have been embodied with them and he would also have a four figure number.

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Doesn't make sense how can you be a gunner(RGA) in the 1st Vol Bn, Welsh Regt or am I not reading it right? The latter were the precursor to the the Territorial and infantry to boot???? If he was still serving with the Welsh Regt TF battalion on the outbreak of the war in Aug 1914 he would have been embodied with them and he would also have a four figure number.

John Robinson married 29/7/1905 at Register Office pembroke .

Profession Gunner, Royal Garrison Artillery. Defensible Barracks ,Pembroke Dock

On the History of Pembroke Dock website it states

1904 'C' Coy 1st (V) Battalion .The Welsh Regiment (The Invalids) formed at Pembroke Dock.

I'm guessing he was in that batallion but I dont know.Was the R.G.A a permanent presence at Pembroke Dock and not like other battalions that moved around?

I dont know where this battalion went after this date .

I presume he left the army as in nov 1910 his occupation is Stoker at Tin Works in Neath on my grandmothers birth certificate.

Did they sign up for a certain amount of time?

I know he went to great war and but no photos ,medals ,papers exsist as his children went to Australia with Barnados.

Many Thanks .Linda

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John Robinson married 29/7/1905 at Register Office pembroke .

Profession Gunner, Royal Garrison Artillery. Defensible Barracks ,Pembroke Dock

On the History of Pembroke Dock website it states

1904 'C' Coy 1st (V) Battalion .The Welsh Regiment (The Invalids) formed at Pembroke Dock.

I'm guessing he was in that batallion but I dont know.Was the R.G.A a permanent presence at Pembroke Dock and not like other battalions that moved around?

I dont know where this battalion went after this date .

I presume he left the army as in nov 1910 his occupation is Stoker at Tin Works in Neath on my grandmothers birth certificate.

Did they sign up for a certain amount of time?

I know he went to great war and but no photos ,medals ,papers exsist as his children went to Australia with Barnados.

Many Thanks .Linda

Hi Linda,

Many thanks for that, but that history is whats causing the confusion as no self respecting gunner would be serving with the Volunteer Infantry. They're two seperate units with different roles and it would seem to me John Robinson was a "regular" gunner in the RGA based at Pembroke. Our RGA researchers here could possibly confirm or deny the existence of a regular RGA Battery being based there, but most vital ports throughout the UK did have RGA Batteries located there with the duty guarding them during time of war. This continued throughout the Great War, and those RGA members who were still serving during this period assisted in the raising of "Siege Batteries" which would eventually serve in France.

You also had Volunteer RGA Batteries usually located in the same area with the same role as the regulars, assisting guarding port's. In 1908 these too, went onto form RGA Territorial Batteries. You also had a situation wherebye a small cadre of regulars were attached to these Volunteer/Territorial Batteries to assist in administration of the unit and give instruction in gunnery.

Now I don't know a lot about the Welsh Regiment, but the unit in question mentioned is a Volunteer Battalion, which is totally different from the RGA and the 1st Volunteer Battalion, Welsh Regt, which I believe went onto form the 4th Battalion, Welsh Regt(TF) in 1908. These were embodied in August 1914 and their members were given four figure regimental which they used unitl 1917 when they were issued with new six figure numbers.

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Hi Linda,

Many thanks for that, but that history is whats causing the confusion as no self respecting gunner would be serving with the Volunteer Infantry. They're two seperate units with different roles and it would seem to me John Robinson was a "regular" gunner in the RGA based at Pembroke. Our RGA researchers here could possibly confirm or deny the existence of a regular RGA Battery being based there, but most vital ports throughout the UK did have RGA Batteries located there with the duty guarding them during time of war. This continued throughout the Great War, and those RGA members who were still serving during this period assisted in the raising of "Siege Batteries" which would eventually serve in France.

You also had Volunteer RGA Batteries usually located in the same area with the same role as the regulars, assisting guarding port's. In 1908 these too, went onto form RGA Territorial Batteries. You also had a situation wherebye a small cadre of regulars were attached to these Volunteer/Territorial Batteries to assist in administration of the unit and give instruction in gunnery.

Now I don't know a lot about the Welsh Regiment, but the unit in question mentioned is a Volunteer Battalion, which is totally different from the RGA and the 1st Volunteer Battalion, Welsh Regt, which I believe went onto form the 4th Battalion, Welsh Regt(TF) in 1908. These were embodied in August 1914 and their members were given four figure regimental which they used unitl 1917 when they were issued with new six figure numbers.

I think you are right and he was part of the regular garrison.The only reason I thought he may of been posted elsewhere is that there weren't any children born until late 1908 and he was married july 1905.After this lots of children were born apart from the time he spent overseas in ? France during war.

If he had left the army and then rejoined the R.G.A for the war would he be given a new regimental number.

In Feb 1918 he was discharged as medically unfit after 2 bouts of shell shock after being buried in a trench.

He was then given a disability pension.Are there records at the national archives that may help me trace him?

Thanks Linda

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I can find only 4 gunners that carried on serving, or where mobilised from the reserve, and had the same number, pre 1905, and they are;

Robinson, John 21170

Robinson, John 15868 , born Frankford 1881

Robinson, John 21962

Robinson, John R 18996

If he actually finished his terms of service before 1914 then you may be looking at one of the Special Reserve gunners.

I believe No. 44 company were based at Pembroke Dock, and it is very likely that he could have been posted to anywhere in England, or abroad, for the period before 1908. The RGA had nothing to do with the Welsh regiment as has already been said.

Kevin

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I can find only 4 gunners that carried on serving, or where mobilised from the reserve, and had the same number, pre 1905, and they are;

Robinson, John 21170

Robinson, John 15868 , born Frankford 1881

Robinson, John 21962

Robinson, John R 18996

If he actually finished his terms of service before 1914 then you may be looking at one of the Special Reserve gunners.

I believe No. 44 company were based at Pembroke Dock, and it is very likely that he could have been posted to anywhere in England, or abroad, for the period before 1908. The RGA had nothing to do with the Welsh regiment as has already been said.

Kevin

Many Thanks for the information.It points me in the right direction.Linda

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To whittle the above list down further for likely candidates, and thanks to Paul for the rolls;

Robinson, John R 18996 - middle initial R and number is wrong on the NA, but correct on Ancestry which should read 189966

Robinson, John 15868 , born Frankford 1881- served in India pre and during war

Robinson, John 21962 - served with 48th Heavy Battery, but no Silver War Badge to show he may have been discharged early and may indicate he did not receive a pension, but still a candidate

Most likely candidate at present is

Robinson, John 21170 - enlisted 14-10-1904, discharged 18-2-1918 aged 36 yrs 3 mths. Went out with 110th Heavy Battery and finished with 117 Heavy Battery. This man would have been 24/25 in 1905 when the wedding took place, what is your relatives age on the marriage certificate?

Kevin

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To whittle the above list down further for likely candidates, and thanks to Paul for the rolls;

Robinson, John R 18996 - middle initial R and number is wrong on the NA, but correct on Ancestry which should read 189966

Robinson, John 15868 , born Frankford 1881- served in India pre and during war

Robinson, John 21962 - served with 48th Heavy Battery, but no Silver War Badge to show he may have been discharged early and may indicate he did not receive a pension, but still a candidate

Most likely candidate at present is

Robinson, John 21170 - enlisted 14-10-1904, discharged 18-2-1918 aged 36 yrs 3 mths. Went out with 110th Heavy Battery and finished with 117 Heavy Battery. This man would have been 24/25 in 1905 when the wedding took place, what is your relatives age on the marriage certificate?

Kevin

His age is given as 23 but in Barnados papers his age is given as 47 in 1926 ,so I think he was 25 in 1905.

My great grandmothers age was given as 21 but she was only 17.

I realise couples wanting to get married often lied about their age.

If I can find any military records I might at last be able to find him on a census.

He wasn't at home in Neath with his wife and 2 children in 1911 and I havn't been able to find him on any other census.

Many Thanks again.

Linda

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His age is given as 23 but in Barnados papers his age is given as 47 in 1926 ,so I think he was 25 in 1905.

My great grandmothers age was given as 21 but she was only 17.

I realise couples wanting to get married often lied about their age.

If I can find any military records I might at last be able to find him on a census.

He wasn't at home in Neath with his wife and 2 children in 1911 and I havn't been able to find him on any other census.

Many Thanks again.

Linda

Sorry I need your help again.

I've tried to find more info at National Archives but was unsuccesful!

I did find the medal card of John Robinson 21770 and he recieved 14 Star,British and Victory medals.

I then searched both ancestry and W.O 364 to try and find his pension papers but I couldn't find any record of him.

I know he received a pension as it's recorded in the barnados papers.

Where do I look to find the info you given me about his enlistment and discharge date.

Many Thanks again .Linda

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When you have 10 posts you can then PM (personal message) me with your email address and I will send you a copy of the rolls that this information came from. Of course there is no way at present that that he his definitely the correct gunner without some further information that can confirm it.

Kevin

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When you have 10 posts you can then PM (personal message) me with your email address and I will send you a copy of the rolls that this information came from. Of course there is no way at present that that he his definitely the correct gunner without some further information that can confirm it.

Kevin

I have some other info from the Barnados papers .It states that he was twice treated for shell shock during the war and that he was discharged as medically unfit in feb 1918. His disability pension was 19/1.He was living in Pontypool, Monmouth between 1912 and 1914 with wife Elizabeth Ann and four children John Ernest(1908), Lilian Ruth(1910) Frederick Charles(1912) and Mary Elizabeth( August 1914) .

Many years ago my granny told me that he had served in both the Boer War and Boxer Rebellion ,but that he had done

"something bad" and been cashiered out of the army.I dont know if this is true.I can't believe they would let him back in the army

as a Gunner in 1905.

Sorry to ask all these questions but you have far more help than the people at the archives .

Thanks again .Linda

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Even if you knew his number it can be near on impossible to research a Great War gunner without their records. Only 30 to 40 % of records survived WW2 so generally one is left with probables and most likely candidates.

If he did serve in the Boar War then unfortunately there is nothing to say he was in the RGA. If he did do something wrong and served his time then I cannot see why he would automatically be rejected for signing up in 1904.

I cannot find a likely candidate, with an original RA number, who had continuous service or would have been recalled from the reserve, who enlisted before 1899.

The only other candidate (although 21170 is still looking likely) is 275308. This John Robinson would have signed up as a Special Reserve in 1914 as an ex gunner/soldier and would therefore have had previous military experience. He was later transferred to the Labour Corp. Unless someone has the Medal Rolls for them we may not know when he was discharged, although I cannot see that he received a SWB which would indicate that he left early.

Do you know where he was born?

Kevin

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Even if you knew his number it can be near on impossible to research a Great War gunner without their records. Only 30 to 40 % of records survived WW2 so generally one is left with probables and most likely candidates.

If he did serve in the Boar War then unfortunately there is nothing to say he was in the RGA. If he did do something wrong and served his time then I cannot see why he would automatically be rejected for signing up in 1904.

I cannot find a likely candidate, with an original RA number, who had continuous service or would have been recalled from the reserve, who enlisted before 1899.

The only other candidate (although 21170 is still looking likely) is 275308. This John Robinson would have signed up as a Special Reserve in 1914 as an ex gunner/soldier and would therefore have had previous military experience. He was later transferred to the Labour Corp. Unless someone has the Medal Rolls for them we may not know when he was discharged, although I cannot see that he received a SWB which would indicate that he left early.

Do you know where he was born?

Kevin

Sorry,

I dont know where he was born, but he is listed as having 2 brothers Albert(50) and Frederick(36) living in brentford in 1926 ,both working in the gas works.I cant find them on any census, but my best guess is London .

As you say I think 21170 is still the most likely.

Thanks Again

Linda

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What was John's fathers name and occupation on his marriage certificate?

Kevin

His fathers name is down as John Robinson and he was a Gas Fitter( Journeyman).

I presume he was still alive in 1905 as it doesn't say deceased as it does for Elizabeths father.

I have tried to find him on the census but no luck so far.

Many thanks for your help

Linda

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I had a look last night for the different census, but there isn't an obvious family group. Unfortunately they didn't always use their proper christian names. Strangely there was a John Robinson (1881 I think) who was a gunner at Pembroke and family, and also an Albert Robinson with the 7th Fusiliers at Pembroke. Most of the Brentford Robinsons didn't match.

Not quite sure how you are going to get a definitive match unless something else crops up.

Kevin

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I had a look last night for the different census, but there isn't an obvious family group. Unfortunately they didn't always use their proper christian names. Strangely there was a John Robinson (1881 I think) who was a gunner at Pembroke and family, and also an Albert Robinson with the 7th Fusiliers at Pembroke. Most of the Brentford Robinsons didn't match.

Not quite sure how you are going to get a definitive match unless something else crops up.

Kevin

Many Thanks for trying.The only other avenue I havn't tried yet is tracing his brothers.

I have an exact address for each of them in 1926. Unfortunately the gas works in Brentford is long gone as well as one of the houses.I'm not sure how to go about tracing ancestors from the 1920's but I think it's my only hope at the moment.

Thanks Again .

Linda

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  • 2 weeks later...
Many Thanks for trying.The only other avenue I havn't tried yet is tracing his brothers.

I have an exact address for each of them in 1926. Unfortunately the gas works in Brentford is long gone as well as one of the houses.I'm not sure how to go about tracing ancestors from the 1920's but I think it's my only hope at the moment.

Thanks Again .

Linda

I have had some luck and found his brothers on the electoral roll.

His surname was Kenton .

I think he also changed his christian name ,so i'm still trying to trace him.

I think he wanted to dissapear so more digging to do!

many Thanks

Linda

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