Trying to find out about RFA, RGA and RHA batterys

[Fleur]

Hi All!

I was sent this way buy a couple of nice chaps on the World War 1 forum who suggested that you guys might be able to help me out: here is my question ....

Can anyone help me with sorting out information regarding the following RA units.

My Great Granddfather served in them throughout the first world war and, although I have been scooting all over the net looking for info (and found the very helpful if incredibly confusing www.1914-1918.net which has table of who was doing what) I am unable to find any useful information to help me track my Great Grandfathers movements.

He was regular army, signed up in October of 1906.

According to his certificate of Employment during the war he was a Gnr (gunner) in France from 05/12/14 - 19/05/16 with the 57 Btty RFA (57th Battery Royal Field Art').

From 17/05/16 - 18/01/17 he was a Gnr with 'D'5 Btty RHA (Royal Horse Art')

From 18/01/17 - 04/11/17 He was a Gnr with 45 Bde (Brigade?) RFA

From 21/06/18 to the end of the war he was with 57 AA (Anti Aircraft?) coy (Company?) RGA (Royal Garrison Art')

Does anyone know where I could find out what theatres they fought in? I know that he was awarded the Mons Star, But where was his Btty before their mobilisation in to France in December 1914?

His medal ribbon has the little Mons rosette on it denoting that he was entitled to the Mons bar which in turn signals that he was under fire between August and November 1914 ... but the question is where?

Any information would be very gratefully received

Also, does anyone out there know Where No.6 Depot RGA was based??

It's just I have a certificate of Education issued on 17th Dec 1906 to My Great Grandfather with No.6 Depot RGA stated as his regiment.

I also have his 2nd class certificate from 1908 which states that he was with the No.39 (Siege) Company, RGA.

Would he still have been at No.6 Depot?

Thanks for looking,

Any answers can be e-mailed to me directly at: lilackitten@hotmail.com

[Arthur]

Fleur.

August 1914 - 23rd. June 1915 the 57th [Howitzer] Bty RFA was attached to the 43rd. [H] Bde, RFA, 1st. Inf. Div.

23rd. June 1915 transferred to the 8th. Inf. Div. and joined the 128th. [H] Bde, RFA, on 5th. August 1915.

18th. May 1916 128th. [H] Bde, RFA, was broken up and 57 [H] Bty was transferred to the 45th. [H] Bde, RFA,

On the 8th. May 1916 D [H] Bty of 5 Bde RHA was formed from 1 section of No. 55 and 1 section of No. 57 [H] Btys.

13th. January 1917 D [H] Bty was broken up and the respective sections returned their original units.

Check out this site for the 1st & 8th Divisions engagements

Depots! Sorry no idea of their locations. However, number '6' was 1 of 7 depots which were formed in 1900. Numbers 2, 3 & 7 were disbanded during 1907, and numbers 5 & 6 were renumbered 2 & 3 respectively.

Arthur

[Fleur]

Hi Arthur!

Thank you SO much for that info, it is very much appreciated

[FROGSMILE]

Hi All!

I was sent this way buy a couple of nice chaps on the World War 1 forum who suggested that you guys might be able to help me out: here is my question ....

Can anyone help me with sorting out information regarding the following RA units.

My Great Granddfather served in them throughout the first world war and, although I have been scooting all over the net looking for info (and found the very helpful if incredibly confusing www.1914-1918.net which has table of who was doing what) I am unable to find any useful information to help me track my Great Grandfathers movements.

He was regular army, signed up in October of 1906.

According to his certificate of Employment during the war he was a Gnr (gunner) in France from 05/12/14 - 19/05/16 with the 57 Btty RFA (57th Battery Royal Field Art').

From 17/05/16 - 18/01/17 he was a Gnr with 'D'5 Btty RHA (Royal Horse Art')

From 18/01/17 - 04/11/17 He was a Gnr with 45 Bde (Brigade?) RFA

From 21/06/18 to the end of the war he was with 57 AA (Anti Aircraft?) coy (Company?) RGA (Royal Garrison Art')

Does anyone know where I could find out what theatres they fought in? I know that he was awarded the Mons Star, But where was his Btty before their mobilisation in to France in December 1914?

His medal ribbon has the little Mons rosette on it denoting that he was entitled to the Mons bar which in turn signals that he was under fire between August and November 1914 ... but the question is where?

Any information would be very gratefully received

Also, does anyone out there know Where No.6 Depot RGA was based??

It's just I have a certificate of Education issued on 17th Dec 1906 to My Great Grandfather with No.6 Depot RGA stated as his regiment.

I also have his 2nd class certificate from 1908 which states that he was with the No.39 (Siege) Company, RGA.

Would he still have been at No.6 Depot?

Thanks for looking,

Any answers can be e-mailed to me directly at: lilackitten@hotmail.com

Hello Fleur,

It seems that your great grandfather spent quite some time in the Regular Army.

In 1906 he was in No 6 Depot Company (not battery) RGA based at Plymouth, one of two companies of the so-called Western Division of the RGA, which had its headquarters at Devonport. The other depot company, No 5, was at Scarborough and the depot companies were usually used to train recruits. At that time the RGA were responsible for coastal defence of the whole of GB, and had been since the 1850s when a massive programme of defence construction began. The programme reached its peak in the 1870s with government spending the equivalent of today's modern nuclear deterrent. By that time there were in excess of 23 forts and batteries in the Plymouth area alone, many of which can be seen today. The RGA had the largest and heaviest guns in the artillery and fired powerful shells to a considerable range. If you wish to see some examples where your grandfather may well have served, here are a few you could visit:

Crown hill Fort - Ordnance Survey Map reference: SX 487 592.

Hawkins Battery - Ordnance Survey Map reference: SX 439 516 (now a caravan park).

Mount Edgcumbe Garden Battery - Ordnance Survey Map reference: SX 457 526.

In 1908 your great grandfather was a trained soldier in 39 (Siege) Battery RGA also based at Plymouth, as part of the South western Coastal Defences. The battery was equipped with 4 x 60 Pounder Guns in two sections of 2 guns.

By December 1914 your great grandfather had joined 57 (Howitzer) Battery in the XLIII (43rd) RGA Brigade which deployed to Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq) in November 1915 to support the largely Indian ("Lahore") Division that had just arrived from France as part of a force intended to secure oil wells from the Turks. In the artillery the term brigade meant a 'grouping' of 3 batteries under the command of a Lieutenant Colonel. Today such a unit is called an artillery regiment. The battery was equipped with six 4.5 inch howitzers in three sections of 2 guns. Howitzers fired medium sized shells on a very high trajectory designed to reach targets hidden behind high ground or descend into enemy trenches from directly above. They were very much feared by enemy infantry, as they caused heavy casualties.

In May 1916 57 Battery (less one section) left the 43rd Brigade and joined the XLV (45th) RFA Brigade in support of the 8th (Regular) Division in France on the Western Front. The other howitzer batteries were similarly broken up and dispersed in different RFA brigades as part of a new policy to mix guns. The residual 43rd Brigade seems to have joined the 1st Division at the same time.

Your great grandfather, however, left 57 battery at that point (probably as part of the detached section) and joined D Battery RHA that was part of the III (3rd) RHA Brigade in direct support to the 3rd cavalry Brigade, itself part of the Second Cavalry Division. This would have been a big change for him as the RHA was the senior branch of the artillery and used much lighter and more mobile guns. The battery was equipped with 6 x 13 Pounder Quick Firing Field Guns of exactly the same type as is used today for Royal salutes by the Kings Troop RA. D Battery still exists today and is part of 3rd Regiment (the successor to 3rd Bde) RHA based at Tidworth in Hampshire. They have their own website. To give you an idea of organisation, your grandfather's RHA battery comprised 5 officers, 200 men and 228 horses. The division he was supporting (the 2nd Cav) fought hard in battles such as Arras and Cambrai.

Interestingly, it seems likely that your great grandfather maintained contacts in and affection for 57 battery, still with the RFA, as in January 1917 he rejoined the 45th Brigade in which 57 Battery operated. It is not clear if he worked back in the battery and it may well be that he worked as part of the brigade headquarters staff where around 20 soldiers worked as signallers, clerks, runners (messengers) and officers servants. What is certain is that he remained in France where the 8th Division continued to fight hard.

Finally, in June 1918, (maybe after a period of convalescence following a wound), your great grandfather went back to France and rejoined the RGA in 57 (Anti Aircraft) Battery in the 89th Artillery Brigade supporting the 5th Army. By this late stage of the war RGA brigades were considered an Army as opposed to a Divisional asset so that they could be grouped (massed) at a higher level of command to concentrate their massive weight of fire. In your great grandfathers case he was again fulfilling a new role in the latest specialised arm of the artillery. Anti-aircraft tactics were in their infancy but very important and they no doubt valued his diverse artillery experience. Unfortunately, the Germans, who had secretly been massing troops transferred from the Eastern Front after the Russian surrender, chose the 5th Army sector to attack, through early morning fog, in March 1918. The 5th Army was spread thinly and, as the result of a government decision to reduce frontline troops, was virtually destroyed. There followed a wholesale withdrawal back to areas that had not seen a front line trench since 1914 and the allies came close to losing the war.

Fortunately however, a strong line was held in the rear by the Australian and Canadian Corps and the German advance eventually ran out of steam and faltered. The opportunity was take to re-organise and, with the assistance of massive American reinforcements and the relatively fresh Australians and Canadians, a counter offensive was launched all along the line in August 1918. It was a complete success and the Germans began a retreat that would not end until they sued for an armistice in November 1918. Your great grandfather would have played his part at all of these momentous events.

I hope that this information has been of use.

Your sincerely,

Robert Bennett

[Fleur]

WOW Robert!

Thank you SO much for this info.

Is artillery your passion?

It's interesting you noted his 'time out' as he was indeed wounded but I will have to probe my Grandfather to find out what happened.

It is difficult to get info from him these days as he sufferes from Parkinsons and gets knackered out pretty quick (as you can image), but he is going to wild for this info, I can't wait to plonk this down in front of him and hope that it sparks a few more memories

I had no idea that he had been out in mesopotamia.

Thank you once again for taking the time to reply to me.

I really appreciate it very much

[FROGSMILE]

Hello Fleur,

I'm glad the info was interesting.

No, the artillery is not particularly my passion, but I am still in the Regular rmy myself and over the years have served in various parts of it including the Royal Artillery. I still have friends there and it was the firs cap badge I ever wore, albeit as a cadet before enlisting as a regular.

I enjoyed researching your great grandfather's units. Much of the info is on this site if you know how to find and interpret it. In some ways the Army hasn't changed much and so we still 'speak the same language' in many respects.

The only part I a not positive about is what guns your great grandfather would have been crewing when part of the South Western Coastal defences before the war. You must visit Plymouth and find out. I particularly recommend a visit to Portland in Dorset where there is a really excellent coastal fort called Nothe Fort. It is a military museum now and full of interesting artefacts. It takes a whole day to walk around!

Best wishes,

Robet Bennett

[Fleur]

Hi Robert!

How long have you served in the army for??

My Grandad was a career soldier in the Royal Engineers until his retirement in the late 60's - you'd have thought I'd know more about the army than I do, but I guess I wasn't paying attention when I was a sproglette!

Do know that he was a sergent, served in Singapore, Gibralta, was out in Italy mopping up after the war.

I really, really appreciate the effort you put in to pulling this info together for me.

I find all this miltary terminology kinda daunting and you did a spot on job with exlaining to me the wheres and wherefores etc. etc.

I am def' gunna get myself down to Portland to take a mooch around the museum and should be able to get a visit in to Plymouth too at some point this year.

I will report back my finds

So, who do you serve with now??

I have a chum who is a Captain serving out in NI at the mo - don't think he is totaly HP to be back there again! Still, could be worse, could be out in the ME

Thanks again for all the Fab info

Fleur

[FROGSMILE]

Hello Fleur,

I have been in since a boy soldier of 15 so that makes 31 years.

I am in the Army Air Corps now, but have served in the infantry, pioneers, logistics and artillery as well. Five cap badges in all.

I look forward to hearing how you get on at Nothe Fort and Crownhill.

Best wishes,

Robert Bennett

[Ciaran Byrne]

I visited Nothe Fort a couple of years ago and agree it is a really good day out. Myself and the missus went on a cold miserable day and it was really great. There are excellant guides there who are only too wiling to answer questions.