paulmh Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 Hi, I am new to this forum and have been recommended to use it by someone from RootsChat.Com, I hope that it will be very useful in finding some information that I am searching for. Sadly when it comes to Family History Marritime isn't my expect field. Basically I am researching my girlfriend's family and have discovered that one of her ancestors was killed at sea in WW1 - Harry Douglas Wooler died on 14 April 1916 (see details below); and was on board the vessel HM Trawler Orcades. I appriciate that the ship may not have sunk or maybe it was torpedoed - but I would like to learn more about the ship if it is possible. I wondered if anyone on this message board would be able to help in someway, maybe you have information on this boat or can at least point me in the right direction. Any information would be helpful. Name:WOOLER, HARRY DOUGLASInitials:H DNationality:United KingdomRank:Leading SeamanRegiment/Service:Royal Naval ReserveUnit Text:H.M. Trawler "Orcades."Age:37Date of Death:14/04/1916Service No:4346/BAdditional information:Son of the late Samuel Wooler; husband of Beatrice Wooler, of 254, "J" Block, Guinness Buildings, Vauxhall Walk, Lambeth, London. Born in Isle of Man.Casualty Type:Commonwealth War DeadGrave/Memorial Reference:Screen Wall. H.3. 314.Cemetery:LAMBETH CEMETERY http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=385002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 David Hepper's "British Warship Losses" states: " Former Grimsby trawler, employed as a minesweeper. Sank after hitting a mine off Grimsby in position 53.45N 00.51E with loss of six men, probably one of a field laid by UC.7." Original RNR Record Card(s) for this man are held at the Fleet Air Arm Museum (research@fleetairarm.com). He was on his second period of engagement in the RNR ('B' service number) so there may well be an 'A' card for his first period as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 Here are the men who died: CAMERON, Duncan, Trimmer, RNR, TS 632, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost CULLEY, Benjamin A, Trimmer, RNR, TS 153, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost FROST, Robert, Ty/Skipper, RNR, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost JOHNSON, Ernest, 2nd Hand, RNR, SA 336, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost STEER, Harry, Deck Hand, RNR, DA 3061, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost WOOLER, Harry D, Leading Seaman, RNR, B 4346, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost ORCADES was 270-tons, launched in 1911 by Cochrane & Sons, Selby for Arctic Steam Fishing Co. Ltd, Grimsby. Requisitioned in August 1914 as Admiralty Trawler No.40 Port Reg: GY.291 Aft machinery of 71hp 3-cylinder triple expansion steam engine that used one boiler. Machinery manufactured by Amos & Smith Ltd Hull; she had one deck and a 69ft quarter deck. She detonated a contact mine laid by a U-boat Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmh Posted 30 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 June , 2009 Here are the men who died: CAMERON, Duncan, Trimmer, RNR, TS 632, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost CULLEY, Benjamin A, Trimmer, RNR, TS 153, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost FROST, Robert, Ty/Skipper, RNR, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost JOHNSON, Ernest, 2nd Hand, RNR, SA 336, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost STEER, Harry, Deck Hand, RNR, DA 3061, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost WOOLER, Harry D, Leading Seaman, RNR, B 4346, Orcades, 14 April 1916, ship lost ORCADES was 270-tons, launched in1911 and requisitioned in August 1914 as Admiralty Trawler No.40 Port Reg: GY.291 Ron This is very interesting stuff guys, other than Fleet Air Arm Museum are there any other way of finding out more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 Hi Paul I had added some more info in that posting Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Birch Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 ADM 1/8454/83 This ref at the PRO relates to the papers held by them on the loss of the HM Trawler Orcades. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARABIS Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 There is a mention of the loss of Orcades in Swept Channels by Taffrail, page 247. "On April 14, 1916, the trawler Alberta was blown up off Grimsby while sweeping a large enemy minefield. Undetered by the explosion, the skipper of her minesweeping mate, the Orcades, at once took his ship alongside the sinking vessel. While there the Orcades was also blown up with a loss of twelve out of her fourteen men, including the gallant skipper". David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmh Posted 30 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 June , 2009 This is very interesting stuff guys, other than Fleet Air Arm Museum are there any other way of finding out more information. Right you did Ron, I hadn't seen that at time of posting - very interesting. Ironically her family still live up that way, just a few miles up in Hornsea. However Harry Douglas was born on IoM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spithead Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 Orcades Port Registration was GY640. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 Hi John Of course you are correct, I glanced at the trawler below which was the ORIANDA. David, I can only find six men who were lost ? Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 UC 7 mined the Humber roads 8.12.15. If you are prepared to do some digging among primary sources at Kew, the sector Auxiliary Patrol Diary in ADM 137/438 will tell you a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Welcome to the forum Paul ADM 1/8454/83 and ADM 137/438 are original document at the UK National Archives, Kew (formally the Public Record Office), which you'll need to view in person or ask a researcher to investigate. The UKNA also have copies of the RNR Record Cards in BT377/7, on microfiche, and the medal roll in ADM 171/124, on microfilm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmh Posted 1 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Thank you everyone, its been very useful. Sounds like Orcades tried to help but suffered the same fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bentom Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Hi, I am new to this forum and have been recommended to use it by someone from RootsChat.Com, I hope that it will be very useful in finding some information that I am searching for. Sadly when it comes to Family History Marritime isn't my expect field. Basically I am researching my girlfriend's family and have discovered that one of her ancestors was killed at sea in WW1 - Harry Douglas Wooler died on 14 April 1916 (see details below); and was on board the vessel HM Trawler Orcades. I appriciate that the ship may not have sunk or maybe it was torpedoed - but I would like to learn more about the ship if it is possible. I wondered if anyone on this message board would be able to help in someway, maybe you have information on this boat or can at least point me in the right direction. Any information would be helpful. Name:WOOLER, HARRY DOUGLASInitials:H DNationality:United KingdomRank:Leading SeamanRegiment/Service:Royal Naval ReserveUnit Text:H.M. Trawler "Orcades."Age:37Date of Death:14/04/1916Service No:4346/BAdditional information:Son of the late Samuel Wooler; husband of Beatrice Wooler, of 254, "J" Block, Guinness Buildings, Vauxhall Walk, Lambeth, London. Born in Isle of Man.Casualty Type:Commonwealth War DeadGrave/Memorial Reference:Screen Wall. H.3. 314.Cemetery:LAMBETH CEMETERY Wooler. Harry Douglas born Douglas, IOM 13 Oct 1887, Father: Sam Wooler, Mother: Annie Smith Regards Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARABIS Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Ron, Using Geoff's Search Engine I can also only find six casualties for Orcades, & no casualties for Alberta. Taffrail doesn't say where his casualty figures come from although there is a bibliography & acknowledgements. If some of the men died later from their injuries, would they then come under the name of their depot ship? Regards, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Hi David, Found these for ALBERTA in my database, all based on "The Cross of Sacrifice" STRATFORD, Sidney, Petty Officer (RFR A 1663), 142720 (Ch), Alberta, 14 April 1916, ship lost BEARD, Robert, Trimmer, RNR, TS 979, Alberta, 14 April 1916, ship lost DURRANT, Charles, Cook, RNR, TC 279, Alberta, 14 April 1916, ship lost GIBSON, Robert A, Deck Hand, RNR, DA 9989, Alberta, 14 April 1916, ship lost HAMMOND, John A, Engineman, RNR, ES 1345, Alberta, 14 April 1916, ship lost HORN, Percy A, Engineman, RNR, ES 308, Alberta, 14 April 1916, ship lost WRIGHT, Ernest, Deck Hand, RNR, DA 2131, Alberta, 14 April 1916, ship lost Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmh Posted 1 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 1 July , 2009 A mate at work suggested I went to my local Libary and looked for a book with the name Jane (Jane's Ships I think) in the title, its merant to be about every boat that was made, persumibly for millitary perposses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Maybe, but these trawlers were not built as warships, like many other ships and boats, they were either hired or requisitioned (sometimes purchased) and then converted. However some trawlers were purposely built for the Admiralty. Gerald Toghill's books, Requisitioned Trawlers - Parts 1 & 2, mention most. J.J. Colledge and a few others have books about them too. Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 He may be thinking of Jane's Fighting Ships of WWI unfortunately it is not so comprehensive on the trawlers and other vessels brought into service for the Auxilliary Patrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmh Posted 9 July , 2009 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2009 ADM 1/8454/83 This ref at the PRO relates to the papers held by them on the loss of the HM Trawler Orcades. Simon How do I optain these papers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SarahT1971 Posted 22 July , 2014 Share Posted 22 July , 2014 I understand this thread was a long time ago, I am still hoping for a reply :-) Harry Douglas Wooler was my Great Grandad on my mothers side. My mother was an only child and sadly she died at 57 ten years ago. I have no family on her side left. I know my Grandad, who was also called Harry Douglas, was sent to a naval school as His mother couldn't cope. She didn't die until the 60's but my mother never met her. He also had 2 brothers who were twins who settled, I believe, in Hull. He had a sister Moya who emigrated to Canada and a half sister Ethel. I'm interested in Paulmh's girlfriend who is related and I would like to know how she fits into my family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KWSmith Posted 15 September , 2014 Share Posted 15 September , 2014 Shipwrecks of the River Humber Area have been awarded a Heritage Lottery Grant (HLF) to investigate Grimsby`s Lost ships of WW1. Between August 2014 and November 2018 Shipwrecks of the River Humber Area will investigate at least 8 of Grimsby`s trawlers that were lost in World War One in the North Sea. We have this trawler listed as one of our targets to dive and investigate. Please see our topic Grimsby`s Lost Ships of WW1 or go to https://www.facebook.com/grimsbyslostships shipwrecksoftheriverhumber.co.uk Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadsac Posted 20 September , 2014 Share Posted 20 September , 2014 Little late for the earlier requests, but find here award for assistance to Orcades ; EDICOTT Harry S N/E Lt. RNR 84Q099 Naval Base Swansea Vice Admiral Milford Haven 17.04.18 Gazetted Minesweeping Operations 01.04.17 - 31.12.17 Mentioned in Despatches When serving at Grimsby in April, 1916, he rendered valuable service in saving life under circumstances of great danger on the occasion of the mining of the Trawlers "Alberta" and "Orcades". He rendered valuable service at Sheerness from the 30th April, 1916 to the 1st December, 1916. From December, 1916, to August, 1917, he served in H.M.T. "Waldorf" and cleared a number of minefields. He is now P.M.S.O. Swansea. Sadsac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwrecks of the River Humber Posted 13 February , 2023 Share Posted 13 February , 2023 Hi I know this is a post from a long time ago but we did a lottery grant to investigat all the trawlers from Grimsby that were lost in WW1 and I have all the info on the Orcades as she was sunk while trying to rescue the survivers of the Alberta. Please contact me if you would like this info. Regards Kevin Smith (Email address removed , please use private messages to contact members) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 13 February , 2023 Admin Share Posted 13 February , 2023 Welcome (back?) to the forum. @paulmh hasn’t visited the the forum since 2009. My tag may alert him to your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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