Australian POW Memorial

[Peter Beckett]

Had a chance to look at this Memorial in Ballarat's Botanic Gardens today and very impressive. Over 35,000 names starting at the Boer War to WW1, WW2 to Korea.

A lot of symbolic details built in, as the section in front of the names represents the infamous Burma Railway and the pillars of stone have the different parts of the world where the camps where and a fallen stone represents the POW's who didn't come home. Boer War names start on the left then WW1 , etc.

Peter

[Guest 3RAR]

Gidday Peter

Pretty sure there is another war memorial in Ballarat where Lord Kitchener was invited to unveil the memorial just after the Boer War but refused to do so until Peter Handcock's (who was shot by a firing squad in 1902 with Harry Morant) name was removed. It then was but very recently was added again. Can you recall if Handcock's name was on the new memorial you photographed??-great shot by the way.

Gary.

[Guest 3RAR]

Peter

Sorry- its late & I didnt read your post close enough-its POW's only but I guess Handcock could possibly be classified as a POW (altho I guess I would be drawing a pretty long bow).

Gary.

[Guest bonza]

G'day Gary

Just happenned on this thread. The monument you are thinking about is at Bathurst NSW. His name has been added by way of a metal plaque attached to the base. Despite several 'removals' the addition "murdered by Kitchener" is usually present.

Whilst not specifically searching for his name I made a point of reading every single name on the Ballarat memorial and am absolutely certain that Handcock's is not there. What is striking about the Boer War entries is that almost as many names are included in the Addendum as in the main list. This might suggest that during the 100 years until the wall was actually 'underway' nobody cared much about our Boer War PoW's. This would seem to include the planning & research stages.

A staggering aspect of the wall is the comparison between the relatively few WW1 prisoners & the row upon row of WW2 victims. Have now dropped in on several visits, there are usually bus loads of senior cits who tend to congregate around the WW2 listings and say such things as 'That's Fred, Bill, Shorty, etc. Younger people often enquire as to the absence of any Viet War names.

Pat

[robbie]

Whilst not specifically searching for his name I made a point of reading every single name on the Ballarat memorial and am absolutely certain that Handcock's is not there.

Hi Pat

Just a thought - have you checked whether "Handcok" might actually be "Hancock". I've found similar erros in spelling during the family history research.

Robbie

[robbie]

[Just a thought - have you checked whether "Handcok" might actually be "Hancock". I've found similar erros in spelling during the family history research.

Robbie

must be the drink, Bonza. I meant "Handcock" could be "Hancock"..

[Guest bonza]

You apparently never heeded the warnings Robbie.

Witton wrote a book called "Scapegoats of the Empire" whilst rotting away in Portland Prison. He calls him ***D**** and that's good enough for me.

ooRoo

Pat

[robbie]

You apparently never heeded the warnings Robbie.

'ullo Pat,

No i NEVER heed warnings, mate

Robbie

[Guest stevenbec]

Mates,

I have no objection to either Morants or Handcocks name being on any of our War Memorials.

This is for only this reason as both served with distintion as members of the Australian States forces and their crimes were only after leaving these forces and serving with South Africa Colonal Forces in the country.

So their service in the Australian Force should be remembered but not their disgracefull actions in the BVC.

S.B

[Guest bonza]

Steve

I have the utmost respect for the work you do, & the knowledge you share with people, through this & other discussion groups.

Our opinions as to who acted disgracefully in this sorry affair are 180 degrees apart.

My opinions were 'matured' over many many years before the filming of "Breaker Morant". The film itself draws heavilly on the book by Lt Witton, found guilty of the same charges as Morant & Hancock, but graciously commuted to life imprisonment.

The "authorities' attempted to destroy all copies of this 'incriminating' nonsense on its publication in1907. Luckilly, some escaped, and have been republished since. I had been told about the book but was unable to buy one until the early nineties by which time it was too late to form any new opinion.

Unashamedly I also declare that I reckon Ned Kelley got a pretty rough deal at the hands of a continuing establishment.

ooRoo

Pat

[Andrew P]

Unashamedly I also declare that I reckon Ned Kelley got a pretty rough deal at the hands of a continuing establishment.

Particularly from Mr Jagger & Ledger

[Guest bonza]

OK then, back to football!

[Guest stevenbec]

Bonza Mate,

I know that this is not the place for this but as to your last can I say that my only concern is their placement on our War Memorial as they were part of our forces when first they went overseas to fight.

They murdered a large number of defenceless prisoners while part of the BVC which had no part of Australias Armed forces and that was after their discharge from the Austrlian Army.

Now I know you do not agree about the trial and exercuion but as I have said before they did comitt the crime (this was never desputed) and not some make beleive order to shoot boers made they do it.

So there guilt in this case was never an issue only their mind set when the crimes were comitied.

And this was also easy as they never shot any prisoner while under comand of a British Officer (Hunt) even if the so called order is said to be from him (Hunt) from Kitchener.

So Morant went mad after Hunt's death is certin and took his own justice, not the order from Hunt or Kitchener made him do it. it was his own sence of revenge against the comando which shot Hunt.

This order was only used as the excuse during the trial to kept them from the hang man and as a BVC soldier mentioned "Its only the very green the believe it".

S.B

[Guest bonza]

G'day Agen Steve.

As usual, mate, you are correct.

This is not the place to express any opinion which might detract from this special tribute to the men & women of our country who had the misfortune to become prisoners of war.

To me personally, one of the most fitting aspects of that tribute, is the alphabetical listing of all known prisoners. The only grouping is by which war they served in. There is no distinction as to rank, social standing or other form of categorisation. As you rightly point out, there is also no distinction between those who might now be classified as heroes and those who might not. That they were in the Service of their country is the only qualification.

But, Steve, on other matters you are wrong.

We both know that is only my opinion.

There have been many attempts, by many people, to analyse the affair & to justify each of the opposing views we hold, and many variations between.

None of those attempts have yet swayed either of us.

When compared with the experience of Morant, Handcock & and the 35,000 people honoured on that wall, that problem can only be assessed as extremely trivial.

Hows about we just agree to disagree, mate?

ooRoo

Pat