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Remembered Today:

1911 census 1st Btn Sherwood Foresters


Rory S

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Not knowing a lot about my great uncle Charles Smith (difficult name to find), I was looking for my grandfather Samuel on the 1911 census and I found his brother, both in the 1st!

They were both Privates in India at Gough Barracks Trimulgherry, commanding officer O M Wolley, A & B Coy's.

Samuel died Nov 1914 as part of the 2nd Btn service no. 9727 in Chatham Hospital of wounds sustained (I assume) at Enettierre.

I don't know a service no for Charles (born in Bulwell, Notts abt 1889), he may (according to relatives) have transferred to the Northumberland Fusiliers, but he survived, and married Samuel's widow on demob.

Can anyone help identify his service details

TIA,

Roderick Charles Smith

Full transcript can be found here:- Table

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Hi Rory

Your link (Table) doesn't go ...

Graham

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There are 17 Charles Smith in Sherwood Foresters and I cannot see one who moved to Northumberland Fus.

I am actually in the process of linking the 1st Bn War Diaries with letters from Norman Butcher (on my website)

Steve m

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Hi GC & Steve,

First I'll put the table on my flickr account, should see it then, also, it's only hearsay Charles went to the NF, and the census was the only military record I've found for him at all!

It was good to see them both together, My dad was 2 months old when Samuel died, Charles then raised him as his own from at least 1918 when Charles married my grandmother (had two girls of his own with her, 1920 & 1927, apparently, Charles looked like Douglas Fairbanks Snr)

I'll do a new reply when the table is in another place.

Rod

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Hi Graham & Steve, Table now uploaded! (again)

Table on Flickr

Rod :rolleyes:

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Dear Rod

If he was in the 1st Battn in 1913 he would most likely have a Service number of <12000. Andrew Hesketh will have a more accurate idea because he has been working on a SF enlistment date - service number roll.

And assuming he was 17 or 18 when he enlisted (ie 1906) that means his number would be above ~10200.

Alternatively he may have served his 7 years with the colours and then left as a reservist in 1913/14. If he was called up as a reservist then possibly given another number that he served under (?)

cheers

Mike

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thinking about that a more; this fella might be a good candidate ?

he's not a territorial but most likely a reservist

did your grt uncle have a middle name ?

post-4619-1245783129.jpg

post-4619-1245783164.jpg

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Hi Mike,

Charles was 21 in 1911, (1889/90), so assuming he enlisted at age 17 or 18, that gives us a date of 1907/8.

Samuel is known about, service No. 9727, aged 24 in 1911 (DOB 15/01/1887) he could have enlisted 1904/5.

The date of approximate enlistment according to service No. of 9727 is (courtesy of Andrew Hesketh) 1904/5, so that fits with Samuel's age.

Therefore Charles must have a later service No., as he would have been too young at around 14 :closedeyes: .

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Therefore Charles must have a later service No., as he would have been too young at around 14 :closedeyes: .

As I said above that's assuming Charles was not a reservist by 1914, in which case there is a possibility that he may have served overseas in 1914 with a different number to that which he served with pre War.

The number on the MIC that I posted is consistent with a reservist being allocated a new number on mobilisation.

I don't see any other MICs for Charles Smith that fit the number range in question (apart from the Charles Smith that died in 1915; so you can discount him).

There is also the possiblity that he was discharged prior to the out break of the War and then re-enlisted into the Territorials, Regulars or Kitcheners Army with a totaly different number. I certainly woundn't make the assumption you are looking for someone with the number range that you have predicted. He may of course not served overseas and therefore has no medal entitlement.

just some ideas B)

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Thanks Mike for your very valuable ideas, which will push me in a newer direction.

Charles's daughter thought he might have been a Sergeant at some point, but it may have a been a case of wishful thinking on her part. I've no clue when he died (without a lot of expensive ordering of wrong death certs to find the right one), so I don't know how old she was, which may have given me a clue to how much attention she could have made (if she was very young, etc.)

I have downloaded another 2 pages of the SF's in India, so I'll prepare an expanded list soon.

Rod

P.S.

Longer list now uploaded (still not complete, though) 1st Btn Sherwood Foresters in India 1911 Census

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I can only see one Sgt Charles Smith - 30349.

It could be that both came home with the 1st Bn in 1914 and Samuel went to the 2nd Bn as a reinforcement.

steve

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Thanks Steve,

I had a look at the medal card for 30349, could be a possibility, pity no address on the obverse, could have clinched it!

Rod

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Rod,

do you have a picture of any of the Smith brothers?

the only reason I ask is that I have been going though the Regimental Annuals 1908-1914 and there is a picture and reference to a Pte Smith; just wondered if he was one of the same

Mike

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Rod,

do you have a picture of any of the Smith brothers?

the only reason I ask is that I have been going though the Regimental Annuals 1908-1914 and there is a picture and reference to a Pte Smith; just wondered if he was one of the same

Mike

Thanks for asking, Mike.

Regretfully I've never seen any photos. I asked the last remaining child of Charles and Ada but couldn't recall any, she's no longer with us, so I asked her nephew after her death to look out for any, but he didn't get back to me (he's the son of the other daughter of Charles, she died 1994)

My father was the son of Samuel and Ada, also Samuel, but he died in 2000, so there's no-one else to ask.

As I've said earlier, if he looked like Douglas Fairbanks Snr, it's probably Charles! (although when he was older :lol: )

If you post it, I could show it to my Mum, she might recognise him if it's Charles, hmm, forget her recognising him, they didn't get married 'til 1937, Charles died 1931.

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Right then..................so who was Douglas Fairbank Jr ?

Did he play with the Monkees B)

Back row left; India 1912

post-4619-1245962049.jpg

and again

Pte Smith

post-4619-1245962314.jpg

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Right then..................so who was Douglas Fairbank Jr ? Not Jnr, Snr!... Rod

Did he play with the Monkees B)

No, but he did swing from the chandeliers!

Fantastic photo's, and my Smith's were with Captain Dumbell (what a name! :P )

Forgive my naivety, but what does the chevrons on his sleeve denote?

It's easier to work out if it's one of my two Smith's than first appears.

There were 5 of them on my census list, two of them were Lance Corporals, Frederick, 23 (24 on photo if it's him) and Thomas, 25 (26 on photo)

Then 3 Privates, Samuel aged 24 (25 on photo), Charles 21 (22 on photo), and Andrew 25 (26 on photo)

I think that the Pvt Smith you've identified looks the youngest there, so I Think it's probably Charles.

Let me know if you think my reasoning is correct.

Rod

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