high wood Posted 21 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2009 I have just unearthed this little gem from, Gallipoli revisited, an account of the Duchess of Richmond pilgrimage-cruise by W. E. Stanton Hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonSqueezerAnzac Posted 14 November , 2011 Share Posted 14 November , 2011 These are much better maps, the best ones I've been able to find in my research on Chunuk Bair. They show (first) the NZ/Welsh/Gloucesters advance to the crest and then (second) the subsequent AtaTurk sweep that destroyed the 6th Loyal North Lanc.s and the 5th Wiltshires who had relieved Anzacs/Welsh night before ~ J. Christchurch, NZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonSqueezerAnzac Posted 14 November , 2011 Share Posted 14 November , 2011 Second Phase. Turks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonSqueezerAnzac Posted 14 November , 2011 Share Posted 14 November , 2011 I've added below this cap badge of the 9th Wellington Rifles, one of the main NZ units to reach the Chunuk Bair summit first with the 5th Wellingtons, and a few 7th Gloucesters and 8th Welsh, and joined later by the 3rd Auckland Mounted Rifles. These units were the first summiters. They had a torrid time of it and were relieved by 3 new NZ units; in turn relieved by 2 British units were where driven off and pretty much annihilated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonSqueezerAnzac Posted 14 November , 2011 Share Posted 14 November , 2011 First phase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 November , 2011 Share Posted 14 November , 2011 This online book might be useful? The New Zealanders at Gallipoli by Frederick Waite Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekspiers Posted 14 November , 2011 Share Posted 14 November , 2011 My great Uncle was in the 5th Wiltshire and was killed on August 10th - assume it to be when the Turks counter attack overran them at dawn in Sazli ravine? The maps in the thread are very instructive and I now have a real grasp of the geography. Its well worth taking a look at the area today on Google Earth/Maps. The approach to Chunuk Bair called "western shoulder" is a spur which today is topped by the main tarmac road to the Chunuk Bair memorial areas. Rhododendron Ridge is topped by a dirt track today which I believe serves as a fire break road. I'm seriously thinking about visiting the Gallipoli Battlefields in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 14 November , 2011 Share Posted 14 November , 2011 There is a three part illustrated extract on the New Zealanders at Chunuk Bair from Richard Stowers' excellent 2008 book, 'Waikato Troopers - The History of the Waikato Mounted Rifles', which I posted on Pete Hart's Gallipoli 1915 page some time ago. Access the first part here - the text is below the image, and parts 2 and 3 are accessed by clicking the forward arrow ro the right of each image (or 'next' at the top right of the image for those not registered with FB): Chunuk Bair 8/9 August I'm seriously thinking about visiting the Gallipoli Battlefields in 2012. I would recommend anyone considering visiting Gallipoli to take a look at Peter Hart's batlefield tour company. His recce trips in particular offer real battlefield touring on the Gallipoli peninsula for those fit enough, as opposed to coach tours which stop off at convenient vantage points for photos to be taken. See the website here: Peter Hart Battlefield Tours, or see the Peter Hart Battlefield Tours page on Facebook. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JaneCable Posted 23 August , 2014 Share Posted 23 August , 2014 For me this is a fascinating thread as my grandfather was there with the 8th Welch. He was a skilled horseman and when the Bn were at Aldershot the brass wanted to keep him there but he refused. I never met him and he spoke little about the war, but my grandmother told me all his life he had nightmares about the slaughter of horses in the Dardanelles. I guess these were from the NZ mounted division which came from reserve and were so badly ripped apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 24 August , 2014 Share Posted 24 August , 2014 Mate, Since no Mounted units (Mounted Rifles, Light Horse or Yeomanry) on Gallipoli were mounted (had horses), purhaps we can transpose horses with men who were slaughtered during that terrible battle/s. There is a very good account of this battle from the Turkish side in Erickson around pages 164-65, where 23rd Regt suported by 24th Regt of the 8th Turkish Division under Col Ali Riza Bey struck the allied line over runing it forcing the British down the Hill wiping out groups as they went. Suporting this attack was 28th Regt (10th Div) who along with the 23rd Regt led this main attack. Allowing for what ever there must have been around 5000 Turks lead by Mustafa Kemel coming down that hill that sad day. S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glyn Posted 4 May , 2015 Share Posted 4 May , 2015 Some wonderful information here - thank you so much. I've had an interesting few days, it must be said. I had absolutely no idea that the Welsh had fought at Gallipoli, and in particular, at the legendary Chunuk Bair. As a Welshman and also a Kiwi - I've lived in New Zealand for 20 years - I was surprised to discover that in this year of all years, the 100th commemoration of the Gallipoli landings, my great-grandfather Lance Corporal William (Bill) Rees died in the battle for Chunuk Bair, on the 8 August 1915. He was in the 8th Battalion of the Welsh Regiment, supporting the New Zealand Wellingtons in the assault with the Gloucestershires. If anyone has any further information on his role that day, I'd be grateful. His service number was 13019. I'm aware that he is recorded at the Helles Memorial. I suppose it is highly unlikely there is a grave site or gravestone. He was 25 years old and had been a 'packer' back in Swansea, according to the 1911 Census. He left behind two young daughters Gwynneth and Betty, my grandmother and great aunt, aged 18 months and 3 years, and their mother Blodwen. She subsequently remarried and had three more children. My cousins in London have a photo of Bill, which I hope to see soon. I raised a glass of whiskey to him on this mild evening here in Auckland and counted my lucky stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard_Lewis Posted 21 May , 2015 Share Posted 21 May , 2015 I've responded to this after a direct approach by the poster... Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertBr Posted 22 May , 2015 Share Posted 22 May , 2015 I have just been to an exhibition at the Museum of the History of Science in Oxford commemorating a brilliant young scientist Harry Moseley. He was a 2nd Lt in RE attached to the 13th Division and was killed near Chunuk Bair on the 10th August. A physics graduate of Oxford he worked with Rutherford in Manchester before returning to Oxford. His work revealed gaps in the Periodic Table which eventually led to more elements being discovered. Further information can be found at http://www.mhs.ox.ac.uk/moseley/ Regards Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p j williams Posted 27 May , 2015 Share Posted 27 May , 2015 Hello My name is Philip Williams and I work for Firing Line museum Cardiff ( Royal Welsh/QDG) I am currently trying to find as much outside our collection information on the 8th Battalion of the welsh Regiment as I possibly can and I came across this thread. I am looking to build files on all the men who served in the Welsh Regiment ( probably wont be finished in my lifetime) starting with the 8th mainly but also the others as I stumble across them in my searches. this is a purely voluntery exercise on my part and all the information goes to the museum archives as copies. If you have photos, or letters or items I am looking for scans, and transcriptions and possible permission to use in displays as copies ( not looking for originals unless someone is looking for a place to donate or loan relative items. In short, what I am trying to do is expand the information available on as many men as I possibly can so that in 100 years, relatives, scholars, whoever has a singular place where they can come to, and find as much information as possible on any man in the regiment. hopefully you now understand what I am trying to do- I have had my first positive response today from someone sending me a scan of a last letter home and giving the museum permission to use it in future for displays to the public- So hopefully this will continue hopefully thats all clear, if not please fire as many quetions at me as needed thanks for taking the time to read this Phil Williams ( hopefully soon to be buried in information) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herekawe Posted 9 June , 2015 Share Posted 9 June , 2015 And here is a picture of the statue of WG Malone at Stratford on Patea in Taranaki. Simon If youd like to know some more about Chunuk Bair then I strongly recommend you read No Better Death - the Great War Diaries and Letters of William G Malone, edited by John Crawford with Peter Cooke Published by Reed, 2005 in association with the New Zealand Defence Force to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the Gallipoli campaign. This book reproduces previously unpublished correspondence and images generously provided by Malone's descendants. Malone was arguably the best leader of men on Gallipoli and had the best strategic view of the campaign but sadly was too late - thanks to military incompetence - to carry it out earlier than the successful assault on Chunuk Bair on 8 August 1915. Malone was killed later that day. I hear that someone in New Zealand is writing a book on Chunuk Bair. I for one look forward to its publication. Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glyn Posted 26 June , 2015 Share Posted 26 June , 2015 Hello My name is Philip Williams and I work for Firing Line museum Cardiff ( Royal Welsh/QDG) I am currently trying to find as much outside our collection information on the 8th Battalion of the welsh Regiment as I possibly can and I came across this thread. I am looking to build files on all the men who served in the Welsh Regiment ( probably wont be finished in my lifetime) starting with the 8th mainly but also the others as I stumble across them in my searches. this is a purely voluntery exercise on my part and all the information goes to the museum archives as copies. If you have photos, or letters or items I am looking for scans, and transcriptions and possible permission to use in displays as copies ( not looking for originals unless someone is looking for a place to donate or loan relative items. In short, what I am trying to do is expand the information available on as many men as I possibly can so that in 100 years, relatives, scholars, whoever has a singular place where they can come to, and find as much information as possible on any man in the regiment. hopefully you now understand what I am trying to do- I have had my first positive response today from someone sending me a scan of a last letter home and giving the museum permission to use it in future for displays to the public- So hopefully this will continue hopefully thats all clear, if not please fire as many quetions at me as needed thanks for taking the time to read this Phil Williams ( hopefully soon to be buried in information) Phil, Email me at greylynnglyn@gmail.com - I have collated some information on my great-grandfather Lance Corporal Bill (William) Rees who was killed at Chunuk Bair on 8th August 2015. I also have some pictures. Bernard Lewis (above) also has some useful tips he can provide you. I have recently had the strange experience (as a Welshman living in NZ) of discovering my great-grandfather died alongside the Kiwis at Chunuk Bair. Of all the battles in WW1! From what I've found out so far, the Welsh 8th is a somewhat forgotten battalion (despite the heroics of the Chunuk Bair and the many published books on the subject) so we need to pull out all the stops to change this! There are two 8th Welsh Battalion war diaries held at Kew, but they have not yet been digitised, so they are only available to those that can visit Kew. I also plan to lobby a politician or two to change that.... Look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Glyn Walters that should read 1915! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glyn Posted 26 June , 2015 Share Posted 26 June , 2015 PS Can I also say it is brilliant to hear that you are doing this work - I was so pleased to read your message above! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 26 June , 2015 Share Posted 26 June , 2015 On 23/05/2015 at 07:14, Bob B said: I have just been to an exhibition at the Museum of the History of Science in Oxford commemorating a brilliant young scientist Harry Moseley. He was a 2nd Lt in RE attached to the 13th Division and was killed near Chunuk Bair on the 10th August. ... I missed that exhibition... For another Oxford man and seminal figure in his own academic career, and who died there the same day (10 August), see: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glyn Posted 22 July , 2015 Share Posted 22 July , 2015 Hi everyone, I've just discovered that ancestry.com has uploaded a truck load of WW1 war diaries. I've just been able to read the 8th Welsh Regiment (Pioneers) account of the advance on Chunuk Bair, which is brief but gives a helpful account of the battle. My great-grandfather Bill Rees of Swansea was one of 266 regular soldiers of that regiment killed on 8 August 1915. It appears ancestry.com has digitised a swathe of these war diaries, which is probably a good thing despite the cost of signing up to their subscription! Cheers Glyn Walters Auckland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 July , 2015 Share Posted 27 July , 2015 Hi everyone, I've just discovered that ancestry.com has uploaded a truck load of WW1 war diaries. I've just been able to read the 8th Welsh Regiment (Pioneers) account of the advance on Chunuk Bair, which is brief but gives a helpful account of the battle. My great-grandfather Bill Rees of Swansea was one of 266 regular soldiers of that regiment killed on 8 August 1915. It appears ancestry.com has digitised a swathe of these war diaries, which is probably a good thing despite the cost of signing up to their subscription! Cheers Glyn Walters Auckland Glyn I hope you won't mind me pointing out that the 266 men of the 8th Bn Welsh Regt were casualties, not all fatalities. 159 men of the Battalion died that day, and a few more in the subsequent days, probably from wounds. It is still a terrible toll and one of the worst days of any battalion at Gallipoli. The Battalion lost 192 men killed during the campaign, meaning 83% of its fatal casualties occurred on this single day. Within the 13th Division two other battalions (both 39th Inf Bde) saw heavier losses - the 9th Worcesters and the 8th Gloucestershire Regt whose fatalities were 302. Of these 190 were killed on 8th August. It was a terrible day for the British Army and particularly the units of the 13th Division who had only landed two days earlier. Two days later, on 10th August the 5th Wiltshires (40th Inf Bde) were nearly annihilated having been overrun. The 13th Div never had a published history and it is a large blind spot in the historiography of the Gallipoli campaign - aprtially due to the fact that the Division was fragmented and never operated as a single unit. Its brigades and battalions were penny-packeted out to other formations and some ad hoc formations created for the assault on Chunuk Bair.. The Gallipoli diaries for the 13th Div were only partially digitised by TNA, who only covered the 38th and 39th Brigades and not the 40th Brigade or Div troops (8th Welsh etc). As part of the Ancestry initiative it seems that even the partially digitised files at TNA have been withdrawn from the website, so the only choice to access them remotely is via Ancestry at present. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glyn Posted 7 August , 2015 Share Posted 7 August , 2015 Appreciate the info Martin. I've posted a story about my great-grandfather on Facebook - on the Gallipoli 1915 page, reproduced below. I can't work out how to upload the picture of him here though... Best regards, Glyn Walters The Pioneers of Chunuk Bair I recently discovered, quite by accident, that my great-grandfather, Lance Corporal William Rees of Morriston, Swansea, a soldier in the 8th Welsh Battalion (Pioneers), was killed in the ferocious and bloody fight for Chunuk Bair, Gallipoli, on 8 August 1915, exactly one hundred years ago. Bill Rees was a 25-year old volunteer and father of two young daughters. To say I was surprised to discover this is an understatement. I had been watching the Anzac Day television coverage in Auckland and had no idea there was a Welsh regiment playing a lead role in the Chunuk Bair assault, or that my great-grandfather was there in the thick of it. I knew he had died in the Great War, but that was about it. I got talking to my mum and then my cousins, and followed various online trails and helpful contacts, through a maze of true and false leads, and ultimately, discovery. Our family comes from South Wales, but I've lived in New Zealand for many years. I’ve heard the stories about the heroic stand at Chunuk Bair by the New Zealanders, one of the few successful Allied advances in the Gallipoli campaign. But on that morning in early August, soldiers from two British battalions – the 7th Gloucestershires and the 8th Welsh Pioneers, were also there, fighting under the inspirational leadership of New Zealand’s Lieutenant-Colonel William Malone. Some of them made it to the summit of Chunuk Bair, and within spitting distance of an unlikely and heroic victory. Much of this however has been forgotten, or so it seems. Not through anything malicious or by fault of anyone, but simply because over the years the Pioneers have not been given the attention they deserve. They were the first Welsh volunteers to sign up in 1914, and thought they were doing the right thing for King and Country. They were ordinary lads, who trained and became a very respectable fighting force. The war diaries of the 8th Pioneers have only just been fully published, for the first time, on ancestry.com. It’s taken a hundred years. There may well be other WW1 battalions who have similarly been forgotten or airbrushed from history...I’m not a historian. That’s for others to say. Fortunately, Bill’s name is recorded at the Helles Memorial. He was a 'packer' back in Swansea, working in steel fabrication. He left behind his two daughters Gwynneth and Betty, my grandmother and great aunt, then aged 18 months and 3 years, and a grieving wife. I have ensured my own mother is now aware of her grandfather’s fate. I’m guessing he had his marvellous studio photograph taken in Swansea prior to joining up, so his family would remember him if he did not return. This is to record our family’s appreciation of Bill’s bravery and sacrifice on this day, one hundred years ago, and of all the soldiers who endured the terror and hardship of Gallipoli. This is also a request to the Welsh Assembly or British Government, or private interests, to fund some research into the Pioneers and their achievements, the first Welsh volunteers to sign up at the outbreak of World War One. I appreciate any feedback. Diolch yn fawr; thank you. Glyn WaltersAuckland, New Zealand8 August 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glyn Posted 16 November , 2015 Share Posted 16 November , 2015 http://gallipoli.tepapa.govt.nz http://www.greatwarexhibition.nz/explore/exhibition/ Dear Forum readers, You have another three or so years to come and see two excellent exhibitions in Wellington, NZ, created by Peter Jackson and Richard Taylor of Lord of the Rings fame, all about the Gallipoli experience from the NZ troops perspective. They are both brilliant and really bring to life the whole damned foray, as you've never seen it before. Regards, Glyn Walters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted 3 December , 2015 Share Posted 3 December , 2015 This was in some papers in the Archives, Kew. Note that it comes from the History of the Wellington Mounted Rifles, NZEF, by Wilkie, A. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p j williams Posted 11 January , 2016 Share Posted 11 January , 2016 Ive managed to start files on 70 men killed that day. another 80 or so to go ( its slow going as its a spare time gig) however have managed to find some interesting info to fill in some blanks on people, including photos. So if anyone else finds anything just add it here and I will pick it up thanks Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrough Posted 13 January , 2016 Share Posted 13 January , 2016 I have a 15 star medal to Private Lawrence Lyons,12058, 8th Battalion,Welsh Regiment.Lawrence was from Ballinagore, County Westmeath,Ireland.Lawrence was killed in action on the 8th of August, 1915.Unfortunately I can find no further information on Lawrence in the local papers. Lawrence was recorded on the 1911 Irish census record as a 28 y/o farmers son, no idea how he ended up with the Welsh Regt, but he may have emigrated to Wales at some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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