John_Hartley Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 Derfflinger, a German merchant vessel, was impounded in September 1914 in, I believe, Port Said. She was then used as a troop carrier around the Med. and, at some point, was renamed HMT Huntsgreen. I'd like to establish when she was renamed. My instinct suggests that it would have been immediate and, certainly, before she carried troops to Gallipoli from April 1915. However, contemporary accounts (including war diaries) are still referring to her as Derflinger at that time. Any thoughts? TIA John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 John, She is Huntsgreen exDerfflinger in Lloysd's Register 1916-17. Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 The DERFFLINGER was a 9060-ton passenger ship built and completed in May 1908 as Yard No.801 by F. Schichau, Danzig for Norddeutscher Lloyd, Bremen, however she was laid down as the HOHENLOHE She was eized at Port Said, in August 1914 In 1914 - Admiralty requisition (F. Green & Co., mgrs.), London (Official No.139066) In 1915 she was renamed HUNTSGREEN In 1917 - Gov't. requisition (Union-Castle Mail SS. Co., Ltd., mgrs.), London 1920 – same owner but managed by Orient Steam Navigation Co., Ltd. 1922 owned by Crete Shipping Co., Ltd. London with Stelp & Leighton, Ltd. the managers 1923 renamed DERFFLINGER by new oweners Norddeutscher Lloyd, Bremen GE Broken up at Bremerhaven, 1st quarter 1933 by Tech. Betr. der NDL for account of Stern & Co., Essen Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 Ron, What is your source for "In 1915 she was renamed HUNTSGREEN", please? John, Crew lists for Huntsgreen ON 139066 are available for 1916 - 22. http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcrews.p...icial_No=139066 Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 Ron, What is your source for "In 1915 she was renamed HUNTSGREEN", please? Hello Kath Starke-Schell Registers, also Miramar Ship Index Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 Thanks, Ron! I'd forgotten Miramar! John, http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/ship/show/192197 Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 John, How can one see the Starke-Schell Registers, please? Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 22 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2009 Ron Any way of pinning down a renaming date in 1915? What I'm tring to evidence is her name at the time of transporting men into action April/May. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 John, Just found this site: http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/Letters/GermanMerchantshipSSDerfl.html It says: Gallipoli On 3 May, 1915 the Manchesters boarded the Derflinger ... then The Welch/Welsh Regiment, Gallipoli. Devonport sailing east to Alexandria, 17th July 1915."SS Huntsgreen" ... So the renaming was after May 3, 1915 and before July 17, 1915 (possibly whilst at Devonport?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 22 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2009 So the renaming was after May 3, 1915 and before July 17, 1915 (possibly whilst at Devonport?) David Thanks, I knew of that site. Unfortunately, there are no primary naval sources mentioned. From an earlier project, I knew the quote about the Manchester's war diary referring to it as Derflinger. It just surprised me that they would take men into action on a German named ship - hence my query. But maybe that is the case. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 John, This may help. I'm researching SS Huntsvale /exBarenfels, also seized 1914. Through 1915 the Crew List has her still named Barenfels (German Prize Vessel), transporting goods for the U.K., & under the British Captain who continued when she was renamed Huntsvale. The name change appears in the Crew List for 1916. However Miramar says 1915 HUNTSVALE. The Huntsgreen Crew lists may help. Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 Hi Guys Yes, for the Huntsvale, Starke-Schell says 1914 - British Admiralty requisition, London Official No.136804 1915 renamed HUNTSVALE Fisher, Alimonda & Co., Ltd., London (crown nominees), but not the month Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 John, How can one see the Starke-Schell Registers, please? Kath. Hi Kath You can purchase Starke-Schell registers from World Ship Society Cheers Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 The War Diary of the 2nd Battalion AIF - here - has the "Derfflinger" leaving Alexandria on April 5, 1915 and arriving at Port Mudros on April 8, 1915. EDIT There is a picture of it still named "Derfflinger" after a collision on May 28, 1915 - see here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 22 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2009 I think the evidence is now sufficient that I must conclude it was indeed still called Derfflinger until about mid-1915. My thanks to David for finding the May photo and, of course, to Kath & Ron for their assistance. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 "You can purchase Starke-Schell registers from World Ship Society". Thanks, Ron. Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 22 May , 2009 Share Posted 22 May , 2009 On 3 May 1915 the Manchesters boarded the Derfflinger ... Any bets on there being a family historian out there somewhere who thinks his granddad took part in the boarding, in the best Nelsonian tradition, of the German battlecruiser Derfflinger ...? Merchant vessels sharing a name with a warship can be confusing. I have been heard it said on more than one occasion that the German battlecruiser Seydlitz was present at the Battle of the Falkland Islands, when in fact it was an auxiliary, a passenger vessel like Derfflinger, of the same name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 22 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2009 Mick A racing cert I would think. When I first Googled,I had to plough through loads of battlecruiser links. Luckily I knew I was looking for a transport ship. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frev Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 Interestingly, another German ship that had been captured in 1914, the Lutzow, had also carried troops from Egypt to Gallipoli in 1915. But her name too was changed sometime later in 1915 (to Huntsend). I had assumed that this was because the Germans had another Lutzow (commissioned 8/8/15) and the name change of above was to avoid confusion. [A battlecruiser, the 2nd Lutzow – SMS Lutzow was a sister ship to the SMS Derfflinger, both of which took part in the Battle of Jutland.] Possibly the name changes all took place at same time: Derfflinger – Huntsgreen Lutzow – Huntsend (renamed after 18/5/15 & before 28/8/15) Barenfels – Huntsvale Cheers, Frev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 German-Australian Line / Deutsche-Australische Dampfschiffs Gesellschaft, Hamburg Annaberg 1909 1914 seized by Britain at Suez, renamed Hunsbrook, 1919 stranded Walvis Bay. 4,463. Goslar 1906 1914 seized by Britain at Suez, renamed Huntsfall, 1916 torpedoed and sunk by U-Boat. 4,331 Rostock 1901 1914 seized by Britain at Port Said, 1915 renamed Huntsmoor, 1918 torpedoed and sunk by U-Boat. Hansa Line / Deutsche Dampfschifffahrts-Gesellschaft "Hansa". Dione 1951 1955 renamed Hundseck (3), 1968 sold to France, renamed Baltique. 777 Lauterfels (1) 1913 1914 captured by Britain at Port Said, 1915 renamed Hungerford. 5,811 Steinturm 1911 1914 seized by Britain, renamed Hunnie, 1923 repurchased by Hansa Line, renamed Axenfels (2), 1933 scrapped. 5,247 Werdenfels (1) 1903 1914 seized by Britain at Port Said, renamed Hunstanton. 4,611. Lloyd Austriaco / Austrian Lloyd Koerber 1903 1914 seized by Britain at Alexandria renamed Huntspill, 1921 returned to Lloyd Rufij renamed Huntscliffe (late Rufiji). Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 I must be getting slow in my old age – it's only just dawned on me that all these renamed German vessels begin with Hun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 I wondered who'd be the first to notice! Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 23 May , 2009 Share Posted 23 May , 2009 It was Hungerford and Hunstanton that made the penny drop – until then I'd only been seeing Hunt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 30 January , 2021 Share Posted 30 January , 2021 I am researching what happened to Norddeutscher Lloyd SS “Derfflinger”, crew, passengers and contents from when she was seized at Port Said on route from Yokohama to Bremen at the the outbreak of the war, to her conversion to HMT Huntsgreen, presumably at Devonport between May and July 1915. Passengers and crew appear to have been interned at variously camps in Alexandria, Malta and Gibraltar. Contents similarly found their way to these ports including Devonport where they were sold. Where could the ships log be found to trace her passage to Devonport from Port Said and any passenger lists and contents for the sailing from Yokohama to Port Said? Similarly I suspect that there should be Foreign Office consular papers referring to its seizure and onward passage and destinations of the crew, passengers etc to the various holding centres. Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Paul Reece Plymouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted 30 January , 2021 Share Posted 30 January , 2021 (edited) Paul Welcome to the forum/ National Archives has some material and links to other archives referenced in Discovery. A crew list from 1915 is in on-line merchant seaman index: You can look up more details at Kew (if they are open!) using the ship's official number, given in these records: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=3&_q=huntsgreen A bunch more stuff for SS Derfflinger: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/3?_q=ss derfflinger&_srt=3 Edited 30 January , 2021 by The Treasurer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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