British POW's & Escape

[Andrew Hesketh]

I've been looking into a man taken prisoner in October 1914 for whom I have now seen postcards sent home. He seems to have led a relaxed life as a POW, working on a farm. Several of the postcards (photographs) show his 'captors', one of whom wrote a friendly message on a psotcard for him. He was also keen to name members of the farming family he was working for and send pictures of them and a Belgian POW with whom he seems to have spent much time. In other words, if this doesn't sound silly, he seemed to be fairly happy with his situation.

However thanks to pals on a related question in this section, I've now located the area he was held in, and it's only 60-70 miles from the Dutch border. Clearly he wasn't incarcerated during the day so an escape would presumably have had a reasonable chance of succeeding. However, over four years he appears to have made no attempt.

I'm not condemning this - happy days on a farm or going back into the trenches with the 2nd Sherwood Foresters? - but the thought must have occurred.

So I was wondering, did British POW's in WWI not have the same mentality as those in WW2 i.e. that escape attempts were a duty?

[stiletto_33853]

Hi Andrew,

Just read an article about a man that was a POW that escaped three times but on each escape attempt was found out on the Dutch border and taken back. Will try and see if i can locate the article again.

Andy

[Andrew Hesketh]

Thanks.

[Dolphin]

Andrew

If you can locate a copy, you might be interested in reading 'Beyond the Tumult' a 1971 book by Barry Winchester [iSBN 0 552 09222 3]. It's a fascinating account of an escape from Holzminden PoW Camp by three RFC officers. Their exploit is very similar in style to the better known escapes of the 1939-1945 War.

Cheers

[healdav]

There's also "Escaper's Club". It was last published in 1939 in Penguin and I found a copy in a secondhand bookshop in Redu in the Ardennes and a second in S. Africa.

"Road to En-Dor", which is still in print.

From what I can gather you have to be very careful about the numbers involved in escaping. I did hear one Colditz veteran say that even there the majority of prisoners did little and in the other camps very little.

Hauptmann Eggers who was at Colditz throughout the war said in his memoirs that whilst at Coldtiz they had more guards than prioners at an RAF camp he visited he found that there were only 30 guards for a couple of thousamd prisoners. They made little or no effort to get out.

During WW1, the attitude seems to have been much the same in proportion. In addition, the hague conventions on the treatment of POWs only came into force in the 1930s, so when there was an escape the whole camp was punished and recaptured POW had a pretty tough time of it.

Many men must have thought that it was not worth the effort.

In WW2, it is probably fortunate that there were not more attempts. The GESTAPO were continually trying to take over the camps and to punish POW who escaped. The German army on the other hand was protecting POW.

After the Great Escape, the GESTAPO had a much bigger hand in POW affairs. This could have happened much earlier if there had been many more escapes.

In Ruhleben there were some attempts to get away, but from accounts I have read, the majority of people there looked down on those who escaped as being trouble makers, and seem to have sniffed when it happened, 'How could they hope to escape when they don't speak German and don't look German'. I don't think that there were ever any successful escapes from there.

[Paul Hodges]

To the rapidly developing reading list growing above you may wish to add WA (Bill) Tucker's The Lousier War (New English Library, London, 1974) - a nice little memoir about two-thirds as a PoW, mainly at Roubaix. The conditions at the camps sound fairly poor, particularly food-wise, if by no means outrageous. Bill Tucker portrays himself as fully aware of the duty of PoW to escape and mounts two attempts that he quickly aborts. Fear of reprisals on his fellow inmates and any civilians aiding his attempt and lack of the possibility of storing up enough food to provision an escape attempt are main reasons Bill gives for not succeeding in escape / aborting his attempts. The fellow British inmates he describes seem to have similar outlooks, if not so actively escape-minded as Bill, and show their resistance through other means - sabotage, graffiti, etc.

[DirtyDick]

Hello

'The Escaping Club' by A J Evans MC; first published 1921.

He escapes from both the Germans and the Turks - although I don't recall that he has a kind word to say for the latter!

There were twelve editions up to my old copy dated 1957, so should be plenty floating around jumble and car boot sales.

Richard

[Andrew Hesketh]

Well, I thought this topic had died having had zero response to it initially! Thanks to all above for the comments and the reading lists - very valuable help.

[Guest cosa59]

"The escaping club" is one of the best escape stories I have ever read.

I managed to get a vg penguin copy, but this book is hard to find, if you do find one at a car boot or jumble sale you'll be very lucky.

I recommend this book if you love escape stories--also 'within four walls' is another excellent ww1 escape account by mjr mcc harrison and cpt H.A Cartwright.

[Tim Birch]

The Road to En-Dor by EH Jones is indeed an incredible escape tale. As a boy I went on skiing trips organised by the RAF Ski Club to Zermatt in the 1950's with my late father who was then a serving RAF Officer. We used to travel down by train and a regular member of our party was CW Hill, a retired RAF Officer, who had been Jones' co-escapee.

He was an extremely interesting person and kept us children amused with unbelievable conjuring tricks.

Tim

[Terry_Reeves]

See also The Tunnellers Of Holtzminden by HG Durnford. Durnford was a Captain and Adjutant at the Holtzminden POW camp which was for officers only. Although not one of the escapers, he was involved in the planning.

By WW2 standards the tunnell was of small scale, some 60 yards long which took nine months to complete. The escape attempt took place on 23/24th July 1918, with twenty-nine officers exiting. Of these, ten made good their escape the others being recaptured. These men were court - martialed for mutiny and damaging property and in September 1918 all received a sentence of 6 months imprisonment which was not enforced because of the deteriorating military situation.

The successful escapers were: Lt Blaine, Lt Kennard, Lt Bousfield, Lt LJ Bennett, Lt SSB Purves, Lt HJ Tullis, Lt Campbell-Martin, Capt Leggat and the Senior British Officer, Lt Col Rathbourne.

Terry Reeves

[Guest Desmond6]

Clarification needed:-

I'm unsure of the rules of war as regards treatment of prisoners and therefore I could be way off line.

But - ranker prisoners could be used as labour on farms etc ... but not officers.

Officers seem to have had had a clear 'duty to try and escape' but I don't know what expectations were laid upon the rank and file?

Also, would many of the rank and file not have to give their parole to their captors. Therefore using the opportunity to escape from a work gang etc could. I suppose, have led to a pretty severe military style punishment and repercussions for comrades.

[bkristof]

Only one loud thought folks:

if you were in the Salient trenches for ,let's say, 6 months.

And then you were POW.

Should you escape as a simple soldier?

No shells.

No gas.

Less rats.

No MG's firing.

No useless assaults.

No trench raids.

No mud.

No stand to.

No...

Well to me it should be obvious... No escape!

maybe the food was poor, but the red cross sended some food to (although the guards enjoyed it for sure).

[Desmond7]

Brist - from a personal point of view. I reckon you've hit the nail on the head with a lot of your points. I firmly believe that - with a few notable exceptions - 'escaping' has been an officer's game. I used to love all those old escaping books which seemed so great when I was in my early teens.

But as I have gotten older and greyer, I think that men who had done their bit and put their hands up when caught in the wrong situation just shrugged their shoulders and agreed that 'for them the war was over'!

That is why I have so much sympathy with the depleted units of the 5th army in March 1918 who took so much crap about their performance.

[stiletto_33853]

Andrew,

Finally found that article for you and another

1 I belonged to the escaping club

2 I escaped from Ruhleben, a civilian businessman interned by the Germans.

If you would care to contact me of forum i will e mail scans of both articles to you.

Andy

[Andrew Hesketh]

Andy.

Will do. Thanks.

[stiletto_33853]

Andrew,

First article sent, but the second article keeps getting returned.

Andy

[Andrew Hesketh]

Public confirmation of my gratitude Andy.

I've written privately as well.

[stiletto_33853]

Andrew,

Your welcome, glad that i could help.

Andy

[stiletto_33853]

Andrew, still having a few problems getting all the information to you, could you confirm the file #s you have received now.

Andy

[stiletto_33853]

Andrew,

Still getting the scans sent to you bounced back, have split the problem file into two parts, lets ee if they get through to you this time. Tey will be files 87 & 88.

Andy

[Andrew Hesketh]

87's arrived, but 88 appears to be in cyberspace!!

[stiletto_33853]

Andrew,

88 sent again but still 1.58 file, should fit in your available space ok.

Andy

[stiletto_33853]

Andrew,

Split the last page down even further, your available space accepted file 90 which was the centre picture. Tried sending the last picture but got sent back so will try again in a bit.

Andy

[ronaldaroo]

The Road to En-Dor by EH Jones is indeed an incredible escape tale. As a boy I went on skiing trips organised by the RAF Ski Club to Zermatt in the 1950's with my late father who was then a serving RAF Officer. We used to travel down by train and a regular member of our party was CW Hill, a retired RAF Officer, who had been Jones' co-escapee.

He was an extremely interesting person and kept us children amused with unbelievable conjuring tricks.

Tim

C.W.Hill wrote his own book based on his his experiences called the Spook and the Commandant.

Ronald John Saunders