2 TS Brooklands

[Lyffe]

I'd be grateful for any advice about 2 TS Brooklands - when was it formed/disbanded, what did it do etc.

TIA

Brian

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Have you seen this thread on Training Squadrons:

 

 

[Lyffe]

I hadn't - thanks for the link.

Brian

[mickdavis]

2 RESERVE AEROPLANE/RESERVE/TRAINING SQUADRON RFC/RAF

BasesFormed at Brooklands 12.11.1914. C Flt detached to Joyce Green from 7.1915 and formed nucleus of 10 RAS 1.9.1915. To 5th Wing 1.10.1915. To 7th Wing by 3.1916. To 18th Wing 25.3.1916. Designated as an Elementary Reserve Squadron and establishment set 23.12.1916 as 18 MF or GW XV. To Northolt 31.1.1917. Disbanded into 30 TDS at Northolt 15.7.1918.

Commanding Officer

Major Burke by 3.1915. Captain Chadwick.

Representative Aeroplanes (* C Flt at Joyce Green)Avro 504 784.

Bleriot XI 534, 4652.

Bristol Scout C 1607.

Bristol F2B C4805.

GW XIV 594.

HF F.20 513, 719.

Martinsyde S.1 717, 2452, 2454, 2455, 2830, 4234, 4242.

MF Se.7 357, 494, 500, 2958, 2968, 2969, 2970, 2971, 2998, 4010, 6680, 6691, 6699, 6702, A4068, A4101, A4102.

MF Se.11 516, 523, 2467, 2951, 2958, 4721, 5718, 5880, 5881, 7351, 7362, 7363, A728, A1711, A2175, A2176, A2181, A2188, A2447, A6815, A6838, A6850, A6881, A6883, A7051, A7052, A9921, B1483, B1962, B1991, B4698, B4741, B4773, B8815, B9443, B9996, C3499, E9998

RAF BE2b

RAF BE2c 1791, 2090, 2670, 4101, 4721, A4816.

RAF BE8 740.

RAF SE5a C5365.

Sopwith Pup B1758, C403, C404, D4187.

Sopwith F1 Camel B5200.

Vickers FB 649.

Vickers FB5 1624, 1643*, 1644*, 1645*, 1646*, 1647, 2865, 2867, 2870, 2879, 2880.

[Lyffe]

That's brilliant Mick, thank you very much. My reason for asking is that I'm tracing the career of C K M Douglas (eventually Captain). I was able to follow his path from the moment he started pilot training in Feb 1917 until he qualified as a Flying Officer (I know it's not a rank) with 83 Sqn on 10 May. Thereafter, until he returned to France in October, I knew, from meteorological papers he published, that he was at Brooklands - but I couldn't identify with which unit.

It was only when I found a reference to '2TS Brooklands' on another forum that it seemed this was probably the answer. What he was actually doing there is another matter, but whatever it was he had time to take aerial photographs of clouds - a series that became quite important in the meteorological world.

Brian

[mickdavis]

Hi

From the dates you've provided, it would seem unlikely that 2 TS was the unit - it had moved to Northolt in January 1917, before his pilot training began.

Have you access to his logbook? The types flown could give clues to the unit. By late 1917, there was really only 2 AAP in residence.

The list below comes from my aerodrome records and its format doesn't suit the Forum's page, but you should be able to unravel it.

BROOKLANDS 2 miles from Byfleet railway station and 2 miles from Weybridge railway station

170/187 : (51) TQ 065620 : Surrey : 290 acres : 2150 x 1000 yards : 50 feet amsl.

Experimental flying ground for AV Roe 1907 – 1908 : Manufacturers’ aerodrome for Vickers Ltd, the Sopwith Aviation Co Ltd, Martinsyde Ltd, and British Bleriot 1911 – 1919 : Private aerodrome for civilian flying schools 1910 – 1914 : HD NLG 1st/2nd and DLG for HD detachments and 141 (HD) Sqn RFC 5.1914 – 1919 : Reserve and Training Squadron Station RFC/RAF 11.1914 – 1.1917 : School aerodrome and Aircraft Acceptance Park RFC/RAF 12.1915 – 4.1920.

Seven 1917 pattern GS Sheds 170 x 100 feet, as two coupled and one triple unit, plus one 1915 pattern Flight Shed, 190 x 70 feet, plus numerous small, ex civilian aeroplane sheds.

1 Sqn cadre 1.5.1914 from reformed 14.8.1914 to re-activated as a flying unit

1 Sqn 14.8.1914 re-activated 13.11.1914 Netheravon

1 Sqn detachment (2 machines) 10.1914 parent unit for HD duty 10.1914 Hounslow

1 Sqn detachment (2 machines) 10.1914 parent unit for HD duty 10.1914 Joyce Green

1 Sqn detachment (2 machines) 11.1914 Hounslow 11.1914 re-joined parent unit

1 Sqn detachment (2 machines) 11.1914 Joyce Green 11.1914 re-joined parent unit

2 RAS/RS 12.11.1914 formed 31.1.1917 Northolt

2 RAS detachment (2 machines) 19.12.1914 parent unit for HD duty 19.12.1914 Lydd

2 RAS detachment (2 machines) 12.1914 Lydd 12.1914 re-joined parent unit

8 Sqn 1.1.1915 formed 6.1.1915 Gosport (Fort Grange)

10 Sqn 8.1.1915 Farnborough 1.4.1915 Hounslow

9 Sqn 1.4.1915 re-formed 23.7.1918 Dover (Swingate Down)

2 RAS detachment 7.1915 parent unit for HD duty 7.1915 Joyce Green

Wireless Experimental Flight 12.1915 formed 24.8.1916 re-designated Wireless School

46 Sqn 19.4.1916 formed with nucleus from 2 RS 20.4.1916 Wyton

Wireless School* 24.8.1916 formed ex Wireless Experimental Flight 24.10.1916 re-designated Wireless & Observers School

23 RS B & C Flight nuclei 6.1916 formed, attached to 2 RS 8.1916 en-route for Egypt

Wireless Testing Park nucleus* 10.1916 formed 21.10.1916 Joyce Green

Wireless & Observers School* 24.10.1916 formed ex Wireless School 2.10.1917 Hurseley Park*

Aircraft Acceptance Park 1.8.1917 formed 12.10.1917 re-designated 10 (Brooklands) Aircraft Acceptance Park

10 (Brooklands) Aircraft Acceptance Park 12.10.1917 formed from existing AAP 4.1920 disbanded

Wireless Workshop Section* c.1918 formed ? 30.8.1918 Flower Down*

Notes – 10 (Brooklands) AAP handled Snipes from the Sopwith Aviation Co Ltd and SE5a from Vickers Ltd (Weybridge), Martinsyde Ltd and Bleriot (Aeronautics) Ltd.

7th Wing 1.11.1915 – 25.3.1916 : 18th Wing, Aldershot Command from 3.1916 : 49th Wing , HD Group, SE Area, VI Brigade 1918 : Technical Group, SE Area 1918 : 1 Group 3.1920

[Lyffe]

That's a very comprehensive list Mick - thank you very much. The Wireless & Observers School* 24.10.1916 formed ex Wireless School 2.10.1917 Hurseley Park* seems a possible candidate, but I've made a resolution to stop making assumptions!

I'd seen his Observers logbook, but at the time his son was unaware there should also have been a Pilots logbook as well. We came to the assumption it had been lost, but last Christmas he found it hidden away in boxes that hadn't been opened since his mother's death many years ago. I'm visiting him next month (he lives in Scotland and I'm in the south of England) so hopefully all will be revealed then.

As an aside, during my period of interest, May-Oct 1917, a Lt Douglas (no initial) appears periodically in the Farnborough Flight Log (NA ref AVIA 1/1) as a passenger on test flights. Since Brooklands is close to Farnborough I thought it might be possible this was my Douglas who'd flown an aircraft there to be tested for some reason.

I think his logbook will be of interest to the two of us, and I'll get back to you once I've seen it.

Brian

[Lyffe]

Mick,

Just to put this one to bed, having seen Douglas' logbook I can confirm he was with the Wireless and Observers School at Brooklands from late May to late October 1917.

If it would help you in any way I can provide a list of most of the aircraft he flew at the W&OS, 15 Sqn (31.10.17 to 8.2.19), 13 Sqn (9.2.18 to 10.5.18) and the Comms Sqn/Met Flight during May 1918.

Brian

[DaveKey]

Hi Mick,

In a post from a few years back you made the following reference ...

Wireless & Observers School* 24.10.1916 formed ex Wireless School 2.10.1917 Hurseley Park*

I was wondering if you could help fill in a little more on this particular reference, or point me to where I might be able to find out more? In particular what the School did and whether there are any known records/photos?

I am presuming that it means that the Wireless & Observers School was formed in October 1916 from the Wireless School and that it moved to Hursley Park in October 1917. Is that correct or have I misinterpreted the record?

Cheers

Dave