andy saunders Posted 6 April , 2009 Share Posted 6 April , 2009 This is probably old hat, but I am intrigued by the yellow Fokker rudder at the IWM that has been linked to Werner Voss' aircraft and was evidently donated to the IWM by the R-D family. Is there any linking evidence/provenance? One for Freddy1918 perhaps? BTW, I tried to PM you with this but your in-box is full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 7 April , 2009 Share Posted 7 April , 2009 This is probably old hat, but I am intrigued by the yellow Fokker rudder at the IWM that has been linked to Werner Voss' aircraft and was evidently donated to the IWM by the R-D family. Is there any linking evidence/provenance? One for Freddy1918 perhaps? BTW, I tried to PM you with this but your in-box is full. I thought the Voss rudder was "lost" at the IWM! Has it been found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 7 April , 2009 Share Posted 7 April , 2009 Please tell us more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex revell Posted 7 April , 2009 Share Posted 7 April , 2009 The triplane rudder in the IWM is not the rudder from Voss' triplane. The Voss rudder was donated to the IWM by Mrs Rhys Davids in the 20s. It was later returned to the family - I think if memory serves, when the IWM was moved. In the 1970s a rudder - just possibly the Voss rudder - was returned to the IWM by someone whose surname and christian name are very like Nesta Rhys Davids, but there are several anomalies in the reports of this correspondence. I have not seen this letter, despite requests for copies. The last report on this subject was by Alexandra Churchill who was attempting to see the 1970s letter donating the rudder. I don't know what, if any result, she had. The people at the IWM seem to have a strange attitude to this question. They say they have searched their collections and cannot find the rudder. They seem very defensive on the subject. I believe they think we are accusing them of having lost the rudder, an important artifact. Incidently, we have a very detailed description of the rudder, so if it ever does turn up we will be able to identify it without doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy saunders Posted 8 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2009 I understood from Norman Franks that he had viewed the rudder and, I thought, that this was relatively recently. I will check with him, but he was talking to me about it only last week and I rather felt it was recent rather than ancient history. On the subject of items "lost" at the IWM, however, we know that Mannock's pal Jim Eyles gave a wooden propellor to the IWM in, I think, the 1920's or 30's. It is thought to have had a Mannock connection, but what the connection is remains unclear. What is clear is that the specific propellor can no longer be located! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southside Bucky Posted 9 April , 2009 Share Posted 9 April , 2009 Hi guys. Although a frequent visitor to this excellent forum, I haven't had much cause to post until now. Thought you might like to see these? http://flickcabin.com/public/view/full/27289 http://flickcabin.com/public/view/full/27290 http://flickcabin.com/public/view/full/27291 They were taken in December 07 while on a behind the scenes day visit to the IWM's conservation dept. They were about to start repair work on the tear in the middle of the fabric. Regards. Bucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 9 April , 2009 Share Posted 9 April , 2009 Hi guys. Although a frequent visitor to this excellent forum, I haven't had much cause to post until now. Thought you might like to see these? http://flickcabin.com/public/view/full/27289 http://flickcabin.com/public/view/full/27290 http://flickcabin.com/public/view/full/27291 They were taken in December 07 while on a behind the scenes day visit to the IWM's conservation dept. They were about to start repair work on the tear in the middle of the fabric. Regards. Bucky Nice pics and thanks for posting them. As you know - thats deifnitely a rudder from a Fokker DR1 triplane. However, with regard to Voss, then to the best of my knowledge his rudder was white. There was some debate that his cowl might be yellow but I dont know if that has ever been established as accurate. Regards, Jonathan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southside Bucky Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 ...There was some debate that his cowl might be yellow but I dont know if that has ever been established as accurate. No, it hasn't. Although the debate goes on... Just for the record; I uploaded the photo's only because I thought they might be of interest, not as evidence that it was the rudder from Voss' Triplane, F.I 103/17. I work in a museum myself and can verify that objects do go missing on occasion, usually through a failure to update location records after an object movement. But to lose an object for ever is very, very unlikely...If it does happen, you can usually put it down to some form of skulduggery! Regards. Bucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex revell Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 I'm sure this rudder has been identified, but for the life of me I can't remember the details. I know that Alex Imrie and Paul Leaman have both examined it. If the Voss rudder ever does turn up, we will be able to identify it beyond reasonable doubt. We have a very good description of it from a letter written in 1918 - even down to the number of bullet holes, patched and fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southside Bucky Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Hi Alex. In Paul Leaman's Triplane book, referring to the IWM's rudder, he states: "...The true origin of this rudder is therefore subject to speculation." On the same page (122), there's a photo of another extant Dr.I rudder on display in 1 Sqn RAF's museum at Wittering, Northamptonshire. This rudder is positively identified as being from Fokker Dr.I 583/17, wn 2258, flown by Gefr Reinhold Preiss of Jasta 14, and shot down on 9th June '18. Are you thinking of that one maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex revell Posted 13 April , 2009 Share Posted 13 April , 2009 Hi Alex. In Paul Leaman's Triplane book, referring to the IWM's rudder, he states: "...The true origin of this rudder is therefore subject to speculation." On the same page (122), there's a photo of another extant Dr.I rudder on display in 1 Sqn RAF's museum at Wittering, Northamptonshire. This rudder is positively identified as being from Fokker Dr.I 583/17, wn 2258, flown by Gefr Reinhold Preiss of Jasta 14, and shot down on 9th June '18. Are you thinking of that one maybe? Southside, Yes, that's probably the one I was thinking of. Alexandra Churchill was taking up the question of the Voss rudder with the people at the IWM, but I have heard nothing from her further on that specific subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deilon Posted 12 April , 2010 Share Posted 12 April , 2010 Dov Eilon Hi, I am the grandson of Reinhold Preiss ! So you see he survived his shot down ! he became a leading cellist in Berlin and later Hamburg and died in may 1964. Regards, Bjoern Ihle , son of Uta Preiss - Ihle dov.eilon@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 12 April , 2010 Share Posted 12 April , 2010 Welcome Deilon. I am sure many of us would be interested if you could give a biography on your grandfather - his WW1 history would be of most interest, but also his life after the war. Regards, Jonathan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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