Battle of Le Transloy Ridges, Spectrum Trench

[Guest RolandVernon]

I hope someone still out there (eg Dianne) who can offer some advice. 

My great uncle, Lt William Hamo Vernon, was killed on 7th Oct 1916 when his battalion (1/4 London) attacked in the 2nd wave, ie the 1.47pm manoeuvre. I am going to the spot on 7th Oct this year to commemorate the occasion. His body was never found. I have pretty much pinpointed the machine gun fire that cut him down as having come from Gunpits or Dewdrop, but to get as close as possible to the spot where he fell, I'd like to know which trench the 1/4 London climbed out of at 1.47 that day. Could it be that his remains still lie buried deep in the mud beneath those fields. Or were unidentified remains buried close by? Any help gratefully received. Thanks. 

[Guest]

Good afternoon all,

 

I've come into this conversation about 8 years after you started talking about Spectrun Trench.

 

My father 2Lt AG Herbert went over the top with 1/1 Londons and won his Military Cross at the same time as 2Lt Barcus.

 

It has taken me a long time to find out where my father won his MC and I have been helped by Royal Fusiliers records at Tower of London.

 

I am visiting area next month

 

Hope this is useful

 

Colin

[andrew pugh]

Hi All

Just to add to this thread there are many Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) buried in Ligny Thilloy Cemetery, Beaulencourt Cemetery, and Bancourt British Cemetery from the fighting on the Le Transloy Ridge in October 1916, many are unknown and some of them belonging to 7th 8th 10th Battalions.

Regards Andy

[Yelkcub]

I also have a great uncle who was KIA on Oct 12 1916. he was in the 2nd  Duke of Wellingtons west Yorkshire Regiment, who according to the Battle of the Somme Roll of honour web page were attacking Spectrum trench that day. he is buried in Guards Cemetery Lesboeufs, but his body was exhumed from another place, of which I have a map reference for. Is there a way to figure out where that was.

Kinds regards for any help.

[Don Regiano]

2 hours ago, Yelkcub said:

his body was exhumed from another place, of which I have a map reference for. Is there a way to figure out where that was.

Welcome to the forum.  If you give us the map reference, I am sure someone will be able to help.

In the meantime, Spectrum Trench was at on map sheet 57cSW2 in squares N.34.b, d.  This was just north of Lesboeufs.  You can see N 34 b and d on this map:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=50.05204&lon=2.86223&layers=101465185&b=1

 

Edited 25 September , 2021 by Don Regiano

[Yelkcub]

Thanks for your response. I wasn't sure this thread would still be active!. my great uncle is the second one down, Pvt Haslam. Any idea what GRU MX means?  I see from the CWG site that several burial grounds were moved to Lesboeufs. 

I would also be interested in the war diary mentioned above  for Oct 12th.

Kind regards

[Knotty]

Hi Yelkcub and welcome

In this case GRU simply refers to the Graves Registration Units,credited with the the burial and/or the re-burial of those killed in action.

 

Heres a useful link to acronyms you might come across

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/common-british-army-acronyms-and-abbreviations-of-the-first-world-war/

Edited 26 September , 2021 by Knotty
Added link

[Yelkcub]

Thank you Knotty. And the MX and ML?  I don't see that in the list.

Can anyone interpret this. "Killed in Action, buried....2 3/4 miles............"

Edited 26 September , 2021 by Yelkcub

[jay dubaya]

2 hours ago, Yelkcub said:

Thank you Knotty. And the MX and ML?  I don't see that in the list.

Can anyone interpret this. "Killed in Action, buried....2 3/4 miles............"

N (north) of Combles.

The references used by the GRU are now lost but I doubt they would have much value anyway. It has been suggested that they may have identified the individual who initially recorded the grave.

Edited 26 September , 2021 by jay dubaya

[Knotty]

I will hazard a guess here and suggest that these could refer to internal file references used back in the day.

I do have another slightly bizarre idea but I’m sure there must be a Pal on here with much greater knowledge and can fill in the details correctly.

I have blown up your extract and hope a name can be deciphered from it.it.

Sorry just seen that Jay has posted the same as myself with ref to the MX etc., and worked out  the name😁

[WhiteStarLine]

9 hours ago, Yelkcub said:

an anyone interpret this. "Killed in Action, buried....2 3/4 miles............"

@Yelkcub, the word is Combles, which is 4.8km south of where his remains were exhumed.  Click to enlarge each image.  Courtesy WFA, IWM, National Library of Scotland, tMapper.

[Rhodsey68]

Hi,

 

I am after some information on a relative i have recently discovered that was killed on 1st of October 1916 in the battle of Tansloy.

I am looking to walk the battlefield and  his attack route if possible, but have not really found a map and have read conflicting articles. He was apart of the 1/6th Durham Light Infantry Battalion,  50th division, 151st brigade.

I have read that they attacked the flers trench but also  the switch trench. If anyone could give me some clarity and which direction they attacked from and route, it would be much appreciated.

 

thanks 

 

 

[Don Regiano]

2 hours ago, Rhodsey68 said:

Hi,

 

I am after some information on a relative i have recently discovered that was killed on 1st of October 1916 in the battle of Tansloy.

I am looking to walk the battlefield and  his attack route if possible, but have not really found a map and have read conflicting articles. He was apart of the 1/6th Durham Light Infantry Battalion,  50th division, 151st brigade.

I have read that they attacked the flers trench but also  the switch trench. If anyone could give me some clarity and which direction they attacked from and route, it would be much appreciated.

 

thanks 

 

 

Welcome to the forum.  The war diary of 9 DLI who were covering 6 DLI at the time has slightly more detail.  It states that the objectives were 2 lines of trenches (Flers reserve 2 and Flers reserve 1) between M.  22. b. 3. 4 and M. 21. b. 8. 4.  The objectives of the right battalions (6 DLI covered by 9 DLI) were: 1st objective - M. 22. b. 3. 1 to M. 22. a. 71/2. 0 and 2nd objective - M. 22. b. 3. 4 to M. 22. a. 71/2. 31/2.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/492729:60779?_phsrc=ZCm66&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=1&queryId=fd3b81c5400019df2b55ce5d1fb4aadd

Map attached - area is to SE of Le Sars.  (Further maps and the Operation Order No. 35 for the attack can be found in the war diary for 151 Brigade (downloadable for free from the National Archives) or here:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/492324:60779?_phsrc=ZCm68&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=69&queryId=53056c8b060f2e9073d4882c846a2f9e

 

Edited 3 May , 2022 by Don Regiano

[Don Regiano]

This might help for location:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=50.06645&lon=2.78341&layers=101724055&b=1

[jay dubaya]

Welcome to the forum Rhodsey68

Switch Trench was within the new front line vicinity of the left neighbouring 47th Division, elements of Durham men may have been in the area as 2 companies from 1/9th Bn were ordered to make contact with the 47th Division who were lagging behind . The 1/6th Bn jumped off from centre right of North Durham Trench and advanced in a northerly direction towards Flers Line and Flers Support beyond. The base image from google earth shows what may be the ghosts of the Durham jumping off trenches.

 

 

[Rhodsey68]

8 hours ago, Don Regiano said:

Welcome to the forum.  The war diary of 9 DLI who were covering 6 DLI at the time has slightly more detail.  It states that the objectives were 2 lines of trenches (Flers reserve 2 and Flers reserve 1) between M.  22. b. 3. 4 and M. 21. b. 8. 4.  The objectives of the right battalions (6 DLI covered by 9 DLI) were: 1st objective - M. 22. b. 3. 1 to M. 22. a. 71/2. 0 and 2nd objective - M. 22. b. 3. 4 to M. 22. a. 71/2. 31/2.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/492729:60779?_phsrc=ZCm66&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=1&queryId=fd3b81c5400019df2b55ce5d1fb4aadd

Map attached - area is to SE of Le Sars.  (Further maps and the Operation Order No. 35 for the attack can be found in the war diary for 151 Brigade (downloadable for free from the National Archives) or here:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/492324:60779?_phsrc=ZCm68&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=69&queryId=53056c8b060f2e9073d4882c846a2f9e

 

Thanks Don, i have read the 6th DLI diary for the attack and not much info in there. Will have a read of the 9th.
 

Thanks for your help 

 

[Rhodsey68]

 

9 hours ago, jay dubaya said:

Welcome to the forum Rhodsey68

Switch Trench was within the new front line vicinity of the left neighbouring 47th Division, elements of Durham men may have been in the area as 2 companies from 1/9th Bn were ordered to make contact with the 47th Division who were lagging behind . The 1/6th Bn jumped off from centre right of North Durham Trench and advanced in a northerly direction towards Flers Line and Flers Support beyond. The base image from google earth shows what may be the ghosts of the Durham jumping off trenches.

 

Thanks for the info Jay

Massive help thanks