EEF - People

[ddycher]

All

I am struggling to get an insight into Sir John Adye's time in Egypt. I know he was Sir Archibald Murray's D.A.G in the E.E.F and that prior to that he was one time GOC of Southern Force before its amalgamation into the Western Frontier Force. However I am having little success, bar trolling the Gazette or brief ref's in the Official History, in getting a better picture of him or the activities of Southern Force in early 1916 prior to the creation of the EEF.

Any recommendations ?

Regards

Dave

[ddycher]

According to Wavell Sir John Adye had an immediate run in with Allenby on his assumption of command in June 1917. Could not have been serious though as Allenby mentioned him in despatches in the December. He relinquished his position as D.A.G in March 1918.

Anybody know anything more re his time in Egypt ?

Regards

Dave

[ddycher]

All

Now know that Southern Force was HQ'd at Beni Suef and concentrated in four distinct areas :

1. Wadi Natrun - 159th Brigade and the 1st Light Horse Brigade (until 11th February).

2. Beni Salama (TBC)

3. The Fayum (1/1st North Midland Mounted Brigade),

1-3 being grouped under command of Maj.-Gen. A. G. Dallas

4. Minia and Assiut provinces under Brig.-Gen. A. Stirling.

Dallas went onto command the 53rd Division at Gaza but I am still looking at Brig.-Gen. Stirling. Was Lt. Col in the Lovat Scouts, then temp. Brig Gen commanding the Highland Mounted Brigade replacing Lord Lovat. He seems to have slipped into retirement at the end of the Senussi campaign. Anybody have any thoughts ?

Regards

Dave

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Sorry but my research doesn't cover the British officers in command and I am looking at this area because a few Camel Companies were sent to the Southern Frontier force soon after their formation in early 1916, but after the time frame you mentioned.

I would be interested in any details of that time, also as you mentioned this period is not covered well in all the sourses I have.

Cheers

S.B

[aconnolly]

Dave

you may already have this, but see Londonn Gazette despatch regarding the Western Force of late 1915. This is the vth despatch of the EEF. It covers the establishment of the Southern force. Piece that specifically mentions Adye is:

"...news was received that a hostile force had occupied the Baharia Oasis,on the llth February. This oa'sis lies some 200 miles south-west of Cairo and about 100 miles from the rich and thickly populated districts of Fayum and Minia. The strength of this force, which was discovered by an air reconnaissance on the day of its arrival, was said to be about 500 men; it was increased on the following day to about 1,000. Further reinforcements are known to have arrived from the west, and the more southerly oases of Farafra and Dakhla had both been occupied by the 27th. All reports .are to the effect that an orderly form of Government has been set up—indeed in most cases the Egyptian officials are believed to be carrying1 on their ordinary duties, but a few Copts have been induced to embrace the Moslem faith. This move of the enemy had, of course, been "foreseen, and I had obtained War Office sanction to organise a command, under Majbr-General J. Adye, C.B., for the defence of the southern provinces of Egypt. This command had recently come into being, and General Adye was able to establish his headquarters at Beni Suef and to arrange for a thorough system of patrols from the Fayum to the neighbourhood of Assiut and the south, with a small guard the important bridge over the Nile at Nag Hamadi. Subsequently, as our successful operations cleared the situation in the north, and the centre of gravity began to shift southward, General Adye was able to strengthen and to extend his defensive line until, at the moment of handing over my command to Sir A. Murray, his most southerly detachment was at Esna".

Regards

Andrew

[ddycher]

Steve

I know that in addition to his Highland Mounted Brigade Stirling had amongst others a half section Camel Transport Corps and one company of the Australian Camel Corps. These camel troops were not in the Minia Force at its inception but joined at a later point in the campaign. The Assuit Patrols I have little detail on but I know they pushed camel patrols out in the desert. Possibly Stirling had left the command by then (when Lovat's Scouts were reformed for Salonika (?)). Details on the Minia force between April and October / November seem tough to come by.

Also know that as Southern Force pushed south the Beni Mazar troops ceased to form part of the Minia Force, which was extended farther to the south, and became attached to the Northern Force (Southern Area) under Maj.-Gen. A.G. Dallas. This did include a camel MG section from the Lovat's Scouts. The infantry and garrison aspects of Southern Force were quickly disbanded from March onwards - this my particular area of interest as 2/5th Devons moved from Deir el Azab to Beni Mazar early April. However the Beni Mazar forces continued to be diluted and they were back in Cairo by the end of the month and disbanded in June.

Any leads you can give to help understand Southern Force (not only its commanders) better would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Dave

[aconnolly]

Dave

The National Archives has something:

Southern Force Egypt. There is also a document on medical services.

Regards

Andrew

[ddycher]

Thanks Andrew.

I have a copy of Maxwells despatch but had not seen the National Archives ref. Many thanks for that - have asked family back at home to get a copy for me.

regards

Dave

[ddycher]

All

If it helps any Brig.-Gen A. Stirling was Archibald Stirling of Keir, 2nd in-line to the Stirling-Maxwell baronetcy, one time Conservative member of the House of Commons and father of David Stirling of SAS fame. Am still drawing a blank on details of his military history apart from now knowing he retired as a Major from the Scots Guards, was a Lt Col of Yeo (commanding the 2nd Lovats Scouts), temp Brig.-Gen at the time I am interested in then honorary Brig.-Gen. from Sept 1916.

As always your help would be appreciated.

regards

Dave

[ddycher]

All

Off-line I have been advised the following :

Wadi Natrun : 158th Bde relieved the 159th in mid Feb. 1916. 159th went onto Sollum in May.

Beni Salama : Troops included the 1st Mongomeryshire Yeomanry, Cheshire Yeomanry (in March / April 1916). The 53rd Divisional artillery was also concentrated there. .

Minia : included the 4th Dismounted Bde

Will update as I found out more.

regards

Dave

[aconnolly]

Dave

From the Medical side, units based initially as follows:

Mena: Scottish Horse Field Ambulance (FA)

Sohag: 1st Highland Mounted Brigade FA

Fayum: North Midland Mounted Brigade FA

Wadi Natrun: Aust Light Horse Brigade FA; part of 53rd Division FA

Minia: South Western Mounted Brigade FA. The SWMB joined force in March as dismounted unit, taking place of Highland mounted Brigade which moved south to Sohag and Assiut

Wardan: no. 52 CCS, remainder of 53rd Division FA

Given the field ambulances tended to be with their respective Brigades, the fighting troops presumably stationed along similar lines.

In addition to the addition of the South Westerns and the move of the Highlanders, a dismounted brigade of Welsh Borderers and South Wales Yeomanry with the Welsh Border Mounted FA also joined the force near the end of March and went to Wardan.

On 2 March the Southern Force moved to the Assiut area and camps were then positioned as follows: Minia, Deirut, Assiut, Sohag, Girga, and Luxor - along the Nile Valley railway.

This may help fill in a few pieces (or create a few more questions!).

Regards

Andrew

[ddycher]

Great help Andrew thanks.

Will run through it and come back once I have been able to fit it into the picture.

Regards

Dave