Gallipoli PoWs - where might they have been imprisoned?

[manchester regiment]

hiya krithia.

these are the details of two of the manchesters,in your list

3417 percy cubley

enl 17-8-14

aged 29

lived with his sister,mrs h.johnson,44 thurlow st,weaste

captured at sedul bahr,on 7-8-15

suffered a bullet wound,to his left elbow/forearm

admitted to hospital,constantinople

worked as a carman for the lancs+yorks railway,62 corporation st,manchester

born.1885 manchester

son of frederick+jane,46 gardenwall st,salford

repatriated at london,on 27-11-18,admitted to king georges hospital,stamford st,london,the same day

discharged classZ 26-3-19[from the 3rd batt]

3726 john,henry espin

enl 22-8-14

aged 29

occupation,stamper

religion,CofE

21 russell st,altrincham

married his wife ada,on 23-8-11 at altrincham

children,john,robert born 18-12-18 and ada,margaret born 5-3-14

reported killed in action,on 7-8-15

later reported POW and wounded at merkey,roumandain,constantinople[bullet wound left knee]

later reported as interned at angora,then bilemidick

repatriation,sailed from alexander,on 4-12-18,on the SS caledonia

arrived in england,on 17-12-18

mack

ps many thanks for the manchesters POWs

[manchester regiment]

2323 christopher nealon lived at 24 hothersall st,salford,aged 24 when captured

1552 joseph,van calstron lived at 44 north george st,salford.

mack

[Krithia]

Thanks for the extra info, I'll make a note.

thanks, Krithia

[Icenitribe]

I have just joined after coming across the website yesterday and I am amazed at the information. A wonderful site and tribute to all those who endured such a terrible period of history.

I was excited to read the information regarding the P.O.W's held by the Turks. It was a mystery in my family of what happened to my Gt. Grandfather, George E. Spink, from Norfolk. Recently I came across a document which I a 99% sure is him. It is the medals awarded document, which gives shows he served in the RFA, rank: Bmbr. Regimental No: 57057. First theatre of war: 5a-Asiatic 17/11/14. There are also the serial numbers E/648491/1 and EF/9/4360 (4), which I don't know what they relate to. It also states: P.O.W Turkey 29/4/16. Dead.

Further research in the Commonwealth Graves Commission archives lists him buried in North Gate Cemetery, Baghdad, grave no: XXI.Q.38.

Does anyone know if any photos exist of individual graves, or the cemetery? I would also be grateful for any leads regarding his regiment or anything at all relating to him. Another mystery which I have not solved is regarding his son (my grandfather), George Robert Spink, b.26 July 1887. My father told me he was a P.O.W in WWI, escaped, and was bayonetted through both of his feet to prevent further attempts, and was a cripple as a result until he died in 1936. I have been unable to find any information at all regarding him, or his bother, James H. Spink. Any suggestions or information would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Icenitribe

John - the reference I read was in Nigel McCrery's "All the Kings Men", concerning the Sandringham Company. He writes -

"There are no reliable figures for the total British and Dominion prisoners taken by the Turks during the Gallipoli campaign. The most accurate appraisal probably comes from the American ambassador in a communication prepared in February 1916, who put the total at approximately 490, of which at least 96 later died in captivity. Most of the other ranks were transferred to various work camps on the notorious Analotia railway and it was in these camps that the high proportion of deaths occurred as a result of the inhuman conditions imposed by their captors. In the early 1920s the remains of these unfortunate souls, where they could be located, were gathered in and individually re-interred in plot XXI, Baghdad (North Gate) War Cemetery. Those that could not be found are commemorated on special memorials in the same cemetery"

Alas, no sources are given for the information.

Alan

[Krithia]

Hi Icenitribe,

I cannot find a SPINK listed for capture at Gallipoli, with that date he could well be a Kut garrison PoW. Good luck with your research.

Krithia

[Icenitribe]

Hi Krithia, Thank you for looking.

Another member also suggested that the dates match those of the capture of troops at Kut. Apparently the division captured at Kut was the 6th Poona Division of the Indian Army, to which the 10th Brigade, RFA was attached, so I will try to find out more info in that direction.

If you, or anyone else has info, would be much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Icenitribe

[kjbriggs]

Hi manchester regiment

I was interested to read about James Leyden who now lies buried in Haidar Pasha cemetery, is he and also Thomas Taylor (1/5th Norfolks) listed on the American Embassy list. I have a copy but cannot find these two names. I have slowly been putting together an extended list of PoW names from the Gallipoli campaign so any more information is good information.

Hello Krithia,

In reponse to your request regarding POW's of Gallipoli: Do you have Pte Andrew James Briggs (9th West Yorks) on your list? He was captured between the 7th-13th August and spent 3 years in various camps throughout Turkey. He is my grt grandfather and I would be interested to see whether you have any information on him. If you require more from me please let me know.

Regards

Keith

[Chutist33]

Hi Krithia and KJ, Excellent thread. I wonder if you have anything on a relative, Raymond Ellar, Corporal 10395, No2 Platoon 9Bn West Yorkshire regiment, captured 9 August 1915, along with his friend, Private Harry Ward. Raymond had been wounded 13 times by machine gun bullets, but was treated by a german doctor and later held as a pow in Bigha, Turkey. Harry received bayonet wounds in his arm and chest. Both survived the war. This info was from a newspaper article dated August 13 1965. Yours aye, Jim K

[Krithia]

Hi Keith,

From the list of PoWs that was communicated by the Foreign Office on 21st Feb 1916, listing all British PoWs in Turkey known to the American Embassy in Constantinople, received through the American Ambassador in London on 18th Feb 1916.

Briggs is one of 318 Gallipoli PoWs that were interned at Kiangeri who were transferred to Bozanti (terminus of the Anatolian Railway near the Taurus Mountains)

The list is purely a list and amongst the names it shows;

Briggs, Andrew John. 9th W.Yorks C. Co. 10604 Kiangri

In another reference that is held within the Ottoman archives in Istanbul there is another listing;

10604 Pte. Andrew James Briggs C Co., 9th Batt., West Yorkshire Reg., 32nd Brig,. 11th Div.

Not riveting information but at least he is listed and recognised, so many didn’t survive long as a PoW and are now forgotten to history.

What may add to your research is his date of capture, this was almost certainly 9th August when the battalion fell back to Sulajik Farm from Scimitar Hill. This is supported by the Ottoman list that states Briggs as one of the prisoners handed over on 10th August.

Have you any further info that you are willing to share as I am trying to setup an archive with as much info as possible, including photos of the PoWs etc. If so, feel free to email me at stephenjohnchambers@gmail.com

thanks, Steve

[Krithia]

Hi Krithia and KJ, Excellent thread. I wonder if you have anything on a relative, Raymond Ellar, Corporal 10395, No2 Platoon 9Bn West Yorkshire regiment, captured 9 August 1915, along with his friend, Private Harry Ward. Raymond had been wounded 13 times by machine gun bullets, but was treated by a german doctor and later held as a pow in Bigha, Turkey. Harry received bayonet wounds in his arm and chest. Both survived the war. This info was from a newspaper article dated August 13 1965. Yours aye, Jim K

Hi Jim,

i have a bit more info on Raymond Ellar, can you send me an email stephenjohnchambers@gmail.com and I'll send you what I have.

regards, Krithia

[kjbriggs]

Thanks Krithia, your information definitely corroborates what I have and it helps narrow down the day of capture for me. Due to the extremely high casualties the battalion experienced that day I always pinpointed the 9th August. I will be in touch on the e-mail you gave out.

Jim, it would be extremely interesting to know whether my grt grandfather and your relative were captured at the same instant. As far as I know he was unwounded and missed a hail of machine gun bullets unlike the unfotunate Raymond.

The only other piece of information I've found regarding the capture circumstances was that 2nd Lieutenant H Davenport of the 9th West Yorks was captured on the 9th August. In TW White's memoirs 'guests of the Unspeakable' he mentions that Davenport was “Badly wounded in the foot and unable to retire when an exposed trench was evacuated, (he) was bayoneted five times, though luckily a cigarette case took the sting out of the most vigorous thrust.” (pge 149). Davenport relayed this when he shared a house with the Australian airman, White, at Afion Kara Hissar.

I've often wondered if my grt grandfather was in Davenport's section and had to put his hands up to survive after being left during the evacuation. All speculation of course but you never know.

I'd be interested in gleaning any further details of your relation's military & POW experiences if you'd care to share them, Jim. I'm currently researching the officers of the 9th battalion and various other ranks so any info would be welcome.

cheers

[Chutist33]

Thanks Krithia, your information definitely corroborates what I have and it helps narrow down the day of capture for me. Due to the extremely high casualties the battalion experienced that day I always pinpointed the 9th August. I will be in touch on the e-mail you gave out.

Jim, it would be extremely interesting to know whether my grt grandfather and your relative were captured at the same instant. As far as I know he was unwounded and missed a hail of machine gun bullets unlike the unfotunate Raymond.

The only other piece of information I've found regarding the capture circumstances was that 2nd Lieutenant H Davenport of the 9th West Yorks was captured on the 9th August. In TW White's memoirs 'guests of the Unspeakable' he mentions that Davenport was "Badly wounded in the foot and unable to retire when an exposed trench was evacuated, (he) was bayoneted five times, though luckily a cigarette case took the sting out of the most vigorous thrust." (pge 149). Davenport relayed this when he shared a house with the Australian airman, White, at Afion Kara Hissar.

I've often wondered if my grt grandfather was in Davenport's section and had to put his hands up to survive after being left during the evacuation. All speculation of course but you never know.

I'd be interested in gleaning any further details of your relation's military & POW experiences if you'd care to share them, Jim. I'm currently researching the officers of the 9th battalion and various other ranks so any info would be welcome.

cheers

Hello KJBriggs, send me your e-mail address (jim@kilmartin.it) and I will copy you the press article. Once again, many thanks to Krithia for this amazing thread. Cheers, yours aye, Jim K

[johnshep]

Krithia

Do you have Capt Douglas Pass of the Queen's Own Dorset Yeomanry on your list? He was captured on Scimitar Hill on 21 August?

John

[Krithia]

Hi John,

Yes I have a bit on Captain Alfred Douglas Pass. He was one of three Dorsets captured on Scimitar Hill during the afternoon of 21st August. From what I understand the rest of the mounted brigade had pulled back suddenly leaving advanced units exposed. Quickly these men were overwhelmed and spent the rest of the war as guests of the Turks. I'll PM you some of the details a little later, they are not to hand at the moment.

What is your interest in Pass, maybe if you have any more facts I would very much like to find out a little more. I have been trying to find a photo of Pass for sometime, maybe something I should advertise on the forum as I am sure there is a portrait or officer group photo of the Dorset Yeomanry.

regards, Krithia

[johnshep]

Krithia

I do have quite a bit more background information on Douglas Pass and also an image of a letter he wrote to Aspinall outlining the circumstances of his capture. Give me a couple of days and I will give you the low down. I would be very interested in your information.

I have researched the Dorset Yeomanry in Gallipoli in some detail. My father saw action with them there, and I have data on most if not all of the members of the regiment. Although there are photographs of quite a few of the officers, I have not found one of Douglas Pass unfortunately. As you may know he subsequently became chairman of Dorset County Council.

John

[liverpool annie]

I wonder if you would happen to have anything on this soldier please Krithia ?

George Henri William Bibby, 7th North Staffordshire Regiment (private 7902) and later on Sapper at the Royal Engineers.( 357208)

Thanking you in advance

Annie

[Krithia]

I wonder if you would happen to have anything on this soldier please Krithia ?

George Henri William Bibby, 7th North Staffordshire Regiment (private 7902) and later on Sapper at the Royal Engineers.( 357208)

Thanking you in advance

Annie

Hi Annie,

Not much, he arrived at Gallipoli on 26/10/15 according to is medal index card, but I have no record of him being a Pow, captured at Gallipoli. Have you any other information to support this?

thanks, Krithia

[liverpool annie]

Hi Krithia !

This is all I have ... I received this message from a Dutch lady ! ... though I'm wondering if she has the right medal card !!

My grandfather was in the WW1 as a private leaving in 1915 to Gallipoli and 1916 mesopotamia. he was wounded and a POW in Mesopotamia. Nobody in the family knows something about him during the WW1. I'm searching and I was in june 1 week in the Nat. Archives in Kew. With help I found his numbers.

priv. 7902 7th N.Staff.Reg. and afterwards sapper 357208 of the royal Engineers.

I want to know were he was in prison. I leave in september to Gallipoli. I want to write a storey about him if possible. He was out of the army in oct. 1919.

His name:

George henri william Bibby, living in Stoke on Trent at that time.

[kjbriggs]

Hello Steve, I've e-mailed a couple of times but I'm not sure you've ever actually received it because there has been no reply.

I'm looking to glean as much information as I can of the 9th West York's movements, its men, officers and experiences of POW's in Turkey so if you have any more information to share regarding this it would be much appreciated. I'd be extremely interested to view the research you mention in regards to Gallipoli POWS, especially those of my grt grandfather's battalion.

I'm especially interested in information from those Turkish lists on prisoners taken from the 9th West Yorks on the days after the Suvla landings. I'm trying to determine if my grt grandfather was a result of a large capture or if he was on his own. If you could spare the time to reply it woud be much appreciated. The forum or my personal mail (kjbriggs@westnet.com.au) are fine.

Look forward to hearing from you Keith

[johnshep]

Hi Krithia

You may know about this already, but just in case... Amongst the pictures in the Photographic Collection of the IWM I came across one captioned 'POWs loading their kits on the steamer which took them from Constantinople. November 1918'. The ref is Q13952.

All the best

John

[Krithia]

Thanks John, I have not seen that one so will get it next time I am up at the IWM.

Many thanks, Steve

[Bastonjock]

Regarding the Brits who were taken prisoner at Gallipoli,i was wondering if there is any reference to a Martin Gallagher. I have asked my mum for more info but she has dementia and is unable to give me any more details.I am struggling with his regiment as home based info is a bit thin.

I often ponder what my grandad went through,what ever it was it changed him from being a devout roman Catholic to a Communist who later may have fought in the Spanish civil war