Sue S Posted 17 March , 2009 Share Posted 17 March , 2009 I have come across what appears to be a non-commemoration and would welcome any advice on how to proceed. A friend of mine has a frame containing scroll, plaque, BWM and Victory medals to George Herbert Homes R/19481 KRRC. The framing appears to be old and probably original. George's medal index card does not give a date of death and neither CWWG or Soldiers Died has any details of this man. When we contacted CWWG they simply said that they had no record of him. If anyone has any suggestions of how we should proceed I would be most grateful. Sue S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 17 March , 2009 Share Posted 17 March , 2009 His name does not appear in the GRO Overseas Military Death Index either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem Posted 17 March , 2009 Share Posted 17 March , 2009 The MIC for George H Holmes, rather than Homes, other wise no other information. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 18 March , 2009 Share Posted 18 March , 2009 The number immediately after George's, R/19482, belonged to Pte Walter HOLMES. Assuming he was George's brother, I checked the 1911 census (not complete, admittedly!), and found siblings George Herbert and Walter HOLMES living in York. Tracing them backwards, they were born in Tockwith, Wetherby, West Riding - Walter in Q3 1893 and George in Q1 1897, sons of George and Hannah. From looking at other similar numbers, they would appear to have been in 21st Bn KRRC. Numbers 19483 (C.A.HOPE) and 19484 (R.H.HUNTER) were both killed with 21/KRRC on 17/09/16. HOPE was also from York, while HUNTER came from Glendale, Northumberland. But, apart from their MICs, I can't find any military records for them on Ancestry, nor anyone with them in their family tree. So it doesn't help much! Sorry! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem Posted 18 March , 2009 Share Posted 18 March , 2009 A couple more bits of information. George Holmes is listed in the Kings Book, which was a Roll of Honour prepared in 1920. The book contains the names, photos and biographies of 1441 men and two women with connections to York. One copy was prepared, given to King George V and is kept in York Minster. George's entry on the published list of names is as follows: Holmes, George Herbert: Rifleman George is not listed on the York 1918 Absent Voters List. Perhaps George died post discharge, Terry D could not find on the Overseas Death Index. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue S Posted 19 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2009 Thanks Terry, Steve and Adrian. I am very grateful for your advice and suggestions for further research. I have checked the civil registration indexes on Ancestry from 1916 up to 1924 and did'nt find him. I am at a loss to understand how George could have a scroll and plaque and not be listed in any of the obvious places ie CWWG, Soldiers Died or Overseas Military Deaths. Steve, I don't suppose there is a photograph of George in the Kings Book is there? I will need to check with my friend but I believe that the frame containing George's plaque, scroll and medals, also has a photograph of him and we might be able to match them up. Our next move will probably be to get a copy of the 1911 census for George and Walter Holmes as suggested by Adrian's brilliant bit of detective work. That will give us a starting point for where the family were living and perhaps he might appear on the local war memorial. Thanks again for your help. I will keep you informed of any progress. Regards Sue S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 19 March , 2009 Share Posted 19 March , 2009 Sue There are instances of plaques being issued to men after the CWGC cut-off date for commemoration (31.08.21). The plaque process was nothing to do with CWGC and no end date applied. Also, there have been reported cases of plaques being issued at the request of relatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue S Posted 19 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2009 Hi Terry and thanks for your reply. I know that with so little to go on it might not be possible to provide sufficient evidence of George's death, but until I reach the final brick wall I hope that you will bear with me while I continue to ask what might seem to be obvious/daft questions. Steve posted that George's name was in the Kings Book which was produced in 1920 which is why I presumed that George died before the CWWG cut-off date. I will try to contact York Archives to ask if any information survives about how information from the book was assembled and whether any original material still exists. Do you happen to know who was responsible for issuing the plaques and scrolls? Regards. Sue S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem Posted 19 March , 2009 Share Posted 19 March , 2009 Hi Sue I went to Tockwith this afternoon and was able to go into the church for a look around. There is both a Roll of Honour for men who served during the war and a War Memorial for those men killed. Unfortunately George is not listed on either. I have emailed the York Cemetery Trust to ask if a George Herbert Holmes was buried there between the preiod 1916 - 1921. I will let you know the answer I get. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue S Posted 19 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2009 Steve, Adrian and Terry, I am really pleased to say that with your help I am pretty sure that we have found him through his entry in the Kings Book. Adrian, you were right he is the lad from Tockwith. I have contacted my friend who has George's medals, scroll etc and he will no doubt be applying for a copy of the entry. George was drowned whilst bathing in the Rhine in 1919. I will post more details when we receive the copy. A few days ago we were at a loss to know where to begin and now it appears that we have found him thanks to your help. Brilliant. Thank you. Sue S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 16 May , 2011 Share Posted 16 May , 2011 Folks On behalf of the In From the Cold Project, I've kept my eye on this thread as, if the posted information is correct, then we have an uncommemorated man who we should try to get commemorated. There is no apparent overseas death certificate which, clearly, makes things tricky. But what is the documentary evidence that he died in Germany in 1919. Can we find a date? Can we confirm his unit so we can try to find where he might have been? Was there a newspaper obituary for him 1919 - or an "in memorium" notice in 1920? What else can we find? How did the enquiries go that folk said they were making This is the time to don your Sherlock Holmes deerstalker and exercise your Hercule Poirot little grey cells. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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