Seydlitz battle damage from Jutland

[RodB]

Could one of you experts confirm that the Seydlitz photo below is transposed ?

It appears to show the state after the fore guns were removed prior to entering Wilhelmshaven dockyard.

What appears here as the starboard wing turret should I think be the port, it seems to show the reported hole in the front plate which apparently knocked out the right gun (reported by V E Tarrant as occurring in the run to the North). However... if indeed this photo is transposed, then it shows a hole on the Left side of the port turret... how did this knock out the right gun ? I'm confused !

thanks, Rod

[Northern Soul]

Rod,

The photo is not transposed. Another view of Seydlitz back in port attached - note the position of the stack of pipes on the foredeck. Also the wing turrets were staggered, with the starboard wing turret being well forward of the port wing turret and, even allowing for the angle the photo has been taken at, the turret shown is definitely in front of the aft funnel i.e. it is the starboard wing turret that is visible.

[RodB]

Thanks ! Sadly, this seems to indicate that the diagrams in Tarrant's book are all transposed then, they all show German ships with the Left wing turret forward. I've just checked a picture of the Goeben (apparently a sister ship of Moltke) and that also has Right wing turret forward, whereas Tarrant shows the Left turret on Moltke forward.

rgds, Rod

[duckman]

I can't speak for Tarrant's diagrams, may be a printing error in your edition. I don't have his book to hand but I'll check my copy. For now, I can confirm that the damage you are looking at is to the right gun of the forward (starboard) wing turret.

According to John Campbell - "Jutland, an Analysis of the Fighting" - the hit was from a 15" shell fired at about 19,000 yards. It was incurred during the run to the North (at 1710). The shell burst as it was penetrating the 10" armour, with most of the blast effect being outside. It left a 14" x 10" hole and fragments struck the training and elevating mechanism, which was wrecked. The crew managed to couple it to the left gun and regained control. One man was seriously wounded by fragments, and one other slightly burned. The turret filled with gas, and the crew evacuated for three minutes before resuming action.

Remember that the wing turrets could fire across the ship at a target on the opposite side. The positioning of the aft funnel gave it a limited traverse, but in a broadside action she could still fire 5 gun salvos (one gun per turret per salvo). During the run to the north, the starboard wing turret was firing across the ship. Campbell says it was also traversed fully aft. Now, the after funnel blocks about 60 degrees of traverse (from 6 o'clock to 8 o'clock) and I'm guessing that Campbell means it was turned to about 8 o'clock (ie as far aft as it could while still clearing the funnel). Just before this hit, the German Battlecruisers had adjusted from line astern to echelon by means of a little 'S', turning to starboard then port. I would guess she was hit just as she was completing this move. The tracks I have show 5 Battle Squadron (suppliers of the shell that did this) slightly forward of the port beam at 1710, so the timings can't be quite right if the "fully aft" statement is correct.

[RodB]

Thanks Duckman, goes to show you need to look at different sources.

Here's Kapitan zur See von Egidy's description of the hit :-

"In 'B' turret, there was a tremendous crash, smoke, dust, and general confusion. At the order "Clear the Turret" the turret crew rushed out, using even the traps for the empty cartridges. Then they fell in behind the turret. Then compressed air from Number 3 boiler room cleared away the smoke and gas, and the turret commander went in again, followed by his men. A shell had hit the front plate and a splinter of armour had killed the right gunlayer. The turret missed no more than two or three salvoes."

You can read his report here : http://www.gwpda.org/naval/jut01.htm

Sounds like his whole crew deserved the Iron Cross.

rgds

Rod