Families notification of a death in WW1

[gord97138]

A few questions that came up in a discussion I was having with some friends-

"How long until the family was notified when a death or KIA happened"?

"Was notification done to the last known address of the Soldier"?

"How were they notified'?

Anyone have any ideas on this?

gordon

[CROONAERT]

In decending order of your questions:

1.Varies depending on the circumstances and date of death. (During big battles when there were more notifications to be sent out, the process was usually slower).

2. Usually sent to the address that the soldier supplied with his next-of-kin details at his attestation, unless modified afterwards.

3. Telegram, official Army Form, personal letter and (depending on the social standing of the soldier) possibly a telephone call or personal visit. The telegram and/or Army Form were the "official" first notifications, but, depending on circumstances, any of the above could happen first.

Dave.

[Jonathan Saunders]

A local schol teacher was the subaltern in charge of ordnance at Pop railway station. He was killed by a shell 9 April 1918. I have a copy of the telegram back to his wife and it is dated 13 April 1918. I have come across instances of the nok being notified, certainly within 48 hours, if not before, or in the other extreme such as my G/Great Aunt, reading that her husband had been killed in the local newspaper a month after his death (although this can be explained).

In the case of the Pop ordnance officer I thought 4 days before notification represented quite a delay bearing in mind he was killed instantly and that he was in effect, some distance from the Front Line.

[mcderms]

My great uncles telegram arrived within a week of his death but he was KIA not MIA. The family got a 2nd telegram from the CO (he was a battn messenger) saying that they'd 'carried him to a small cemetry behind our lines, near Hazebrouck' and there he still is.

In big battles, the officers casualty lists seem to have come out very quickly but not so for the private soldiers.

[Guest Desmond6]

The next of kin issue is worth examining ... I have many examples of people in Ballymena receiving 'official intimation' that their cousin who was born in Australia has been KIA or wounded.

Does this necessarily mean that the recipient of the letter was a 'next of kin' or did colonial soldiers with 'GB & Ireland' connections have the option of putting down the names of relatives in the British isles?

I can understand men who had only gone to Australia, canada or NZ in recent years putting down the names of relatives in Europe but it's the really 'far out' relations receiving 'official intimation' which baffles me.

An example would be Mrs. Bloggs of Bloggtown has .... that her cousin, Pte. Joe Soap has been killed in action ... . Pte Soap was the grandson of the late Mr. Henry Soap of Bloggtown.

Excuse the names - I'm sneakily posting from work and don't have proper names to work with.

I hope you can understand my point!

[Joy Dean]

This is the wording of a letter received by my great-grandmother, Mrs Susan Harrison, telling her that her son had died:-

The letter from Captain R. Hulbert Dadd, "B" Company, 5th Machine Gun Battalion, dated 28 May 1918 says

" ... I regret very much to inform you that your son Pte. A.G. Harrison, No. 62732 of this Company was killed in action on the night of the 21st instant. Death was instantaneous and without any suffering.

The Company was taking part in an attack and your son's gun team was one of these which advanced against the enemy. The attack was successful, and all guns reached and established new positions. Later in the night the enemy shelled our lines and one shell fell on your son's gun killing him and wounding a comrade.

It was impossible to get his remains away and he lies in a soldier's grave where he fell.

I and the C.O. and all the Company deeply sympathise with you in your loss.

Your son always did his duty and now has given his life for his country. We all honour him, and I trust you will feel some consolation in remembering this.

His effects will reach you via the Base in due course.

In true sympathy....".

RIP great-uncle Dick

Joy

[STANSGRANDS]

Is it still possible to get copies of the telegrams of the deceased.

[Langdon]

I recently obtained copies at the National Archives of the handwritten Post Office Telegraph to my great uncle's father and the Casualty Form (Army Form B213) from his regiment. The telegram was sent 3 days after his death, which was reported in the Manchester Evening News on the 9^th.

“To E.C. Townsend, 9 Vine Place, Brighton, Sussex

Deeply regret to inform you that Lieut I.V. Townsend 2^nd E. Lancs Regt. was killed in action 3^rd February – Lord Kitchener expresses his sympathy”

[r30rvp]

Hello Langdon

Just seen your post. Are these on the national archive on line?? If they are where did you find them?? Have tried searching but with no result!!

Many thanks

Rachel

[Langdon]

Hello r30rvp,

No, they're not on line - you have to go to Kew. That is, if your online search has a hit. Go to the NA home page - click on the arrow next to Search Our Website and Search Our Records will show. Put in the name and hopefully a WO file will appear.

I had two hits - Ivan, above, and his brother Percy who was in the RFA. I then ordered the files giving the WO 339 numbers - and they were waiting for me 4/5 days later. They were a great glimpse back in time...

I had had no luck with the third brother, my grandfather Herbert, until I got to Kew and asked at the red information desk. A helpful lady found his long number and the fact that he was a code P - which means the file is being kept by the MOD - for no deeper reason than he and the MOD may have corresponded after 1922.. I have therefore (reluctantly) sent the MOD £30 and requested access to his file. Whether his file would ever get back to Kew I don't know.

I understand that officers' records are more likely to be found than OR's. For instance the NA have original volumes of the War Lists - officers only (I think).

Good luck!

[woollamc]

My great uncle, a Lieutenant in the 5th North Staffords, was killed on 14 March 1917 and I have a photocopy of a letter sent to his mother, informing her of his death dated 20 March. It seems to have been hand written by the commander of the 46th Division, Major General William Thwaites, which strikes me as being pretty quick for a man who was undoubtedly very busy (always assuming that someone else didn't write it on his behalf).

Does anyone know if it was common practice for a Divisional commander to write to the relatives of all the officers who were killed in the various regiments under his command?

[mark.topham]

Pretty unusual for a Divisional Commander to pen a letter of notification themselves. Unless they were personally known (or family was) to the individual. Your Great Uncle may have performed some Staff work and therefore come to the Divisional Commanders attention (2Lt John Baldwin Hoyle M.C. comes to mind). As for the speed of his communicate as a divisional commander he would have access to the casualty lists of officers in his division. No doubt I will be corrected on this.

Bom T

[r30rvp]

Lovely thank you, something else to add to my list when I visit

Rachel

[woollamc]

Pretty unusual for a Divisional Commander to pen a letter of notification themselves. Unless they were personally known (or family was) to the individual. Your Great Uncle may have performed some Staff work and therefore come to the Divisional Commanders attention (2Lt John Baldwin Hoyle M.C. comes to mind). As for the speed of his communicate as a divisional commander he would have access to the casualty lists of officers in his division. No doubt I will be corrected on this.

Bom T

Thanks, Bom T. No staff work and, as far as I know, no family connection (the letter is formally addressed "Dear Madam"). I shall interrogate the CWGC data and see how many officers were killed in 46th Division during Thwaites' command and see if it's plausible for him to have written to them all!

[mark.topham]

It occurred to me after my post the Divisional Commander may just have been a very consciousness man (they were not all butchers and bunglers despite what Alan Clarke would have us believe). Don't know anything about him but I know the Birmingham University has a web page with information about General Officers. The 46th Division was a Territorial formation and this could be a reflection of the fact.

Bom T

Edited 2 June , 2014 by Bom T

[Joy Dean]

On 30/03/2004 at 22:14, Joy Dean said:

This is the wording of a letter received by my great-grandmother, Mrs Susan Harrison, telling her that her son had died:-

The letter from Captain R. Hulbert Dadd, "B" Company, 5th Machine Gun Battalion, dated 28 May 1918 says

" ... I regret very much to inform you that your son Pte. A.G. Harrison, No. 62732 of this Company was killed in action on the night of the 21st instant. Death was instantaneous and without any suffering.

The Company was taking part in an attack and your son's gun team was one of these which advanced against the enemy. The attack was successful, and all guns reached and established new positions. Later in the night the enemy shelled our lines and one shell fell on your son's gun killing him and wounding a comrade.

It was impossible to get his remains away and he lies in a soldier's grave where he fell.

I and the C.O. and all the Company deeply sympathise with you in your loss.

Your son always did his duty and now has given his life for his country. We all honour him, and I trust you will feel some consolation in remembering this.

His effects will reach you via the Base in due course.

In true sympathy....".

RIP great-uncle Dick

Joy

I shall attach a scan of the letter that was sent to my great-grandmother. It says copy on it so don't know what happened to the original. It is quite dark but hope it is legible enough.

[woronora]

Hi

I have a telegram, dated 3 May 1918, sent by the Keeper of the Privy Purse, Buckingham Palace, to Mrs. Annie Stephen Hart expressing the King's and Queen's sympathy on the death of her son, Lieutenant George Hope Campbell Hart, 12th Battalion, A.I.F.

The telegram had been redirected from Glasgow, the address given by George's for his mother, Annie, whom he had nominated as his next of kin on his attestation papers.

George was severely wounded at Meteren, France, on 23 April 1918. He died two days later, three years to the day after he had landed at Anzac Cove with the 12th Battalion, A.I.F., on 25 April 1915.

Cheers

 

John

[woronora]

The telegram sent to the Stipendiary Reader, St. John's Church of England, Bagshot, asking him to inform Ernestina Adelaide Wallace Miller, commonly called Millie, that her husband, Private Charles Walter Brandford, had been killed in action on 12 December 1916. Charles, who was a member of the 59th Battalion, A.I.F., was killed during a heavy enemy barrage when the battalion was manning the front line in the, Needle,  Zenith, Spring, Gusty, Spectrum and Rose trenches, near LeTransloy, Somme Valley.

Cheers

John