centurion Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 Listening to 'From our own correspondent' on the car radio this morning I heard an interesting piece on the damage caused by the recent fighting to the CWWG cemetery there. The reporter had a great uncle who was killed at 2nd Gaza buried there. The reporter stated that 2nd Gaza was opened with a gas barrage laid down by the RA. In a discussion yonks ago on this forum I think it was concluded that gas was not used in the Middle East. Was there gas at Gaza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 (edited) Centurion I think that this is what you need see http://wih.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/12/3/278 see page 316; quote: "In contrast, the two commanders-in-chief of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force (EEF), generals Archibald Murray and Edmund Allenby, positioned at the gates of Palestine, took to the chemical road of their own accord. Murray considered chemical weapons to be a force multiplier, which might facilitate a decisive victory over the Ottoman army along the Gaza–Beersheba defence line. During the botched second battle of Gaza, on 19 April 1917, his field artillery fired about 2500 poisonous chlorine shells on Turkish first-line positions with no effects and without the Turks noticing, because of the small number of shells, the volatile chemical substance, and the unsuitable climate and terrain." regards Michael Edited 26 February , 2009 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 I believe that 7000 gas shells had been shipped to the Palestine front along with the tanks. The gas officer is said to have informed Murray that the climatic conditions were quite unsuitable, and as has been stated above it is thought the Turks did not report any noticeable effect during the bombardment. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 Yigal SHEFFY - The Introduction of Chemical Warfare to the Middle East , pp 75-84 Sheffy notes that 2,000 shells were fired but in diffused concentrations so no critical mass could be achieved to give any results. [p. 81] In addition, Sheffy claims that Murray blamed the failure of Gaza 2 specifically upon the inability of gas shells to do the work they promised to do. [p. 81] Friedrich Freiherr Kress von Kressenstein, Mit den Tèurken zum Suezkanal, (1938) Kress is noted to have stated that the Ottomans had no idea that they were under an attack of gas and didn't until the battle passed and the post battle reports came in. [p. 241.] Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearsonica Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Whether gas was used or not I do have a photo of the 9th Battalion Royal Warwickshires putting on Gas Masks. When and where this was take I do not know. Certainly my Great Uncle Alfred Pearson did serve in Palistine and Mesopotania. Bigs Clacton on Sea Essex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Bill, It's interesting that we have both quoted Dr. Sheffy: from different publications and a slightly different story each time regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Michael Mate, done deliberately and well picked up. Initially I thought we were dealing with two different articles - I have a copy of the version detailed above - and then imagine my surprise to find that they are similar articles modified to suit the particular circumstance. One wonders at the reason for the adjustments - I mean there is a considerable difference between 2,000 and 2,500 gas shells [25% variation]. All this reminds me of the old joke told in the Soviet empire when an American reporter asks one Communist Party of the Soviet Union Official History editor during the missile race in the 60's: "Don't you ever worry about the future?" to which the response was: "There is only one future we have to deal with so I am not worried. It is the past I worry about, it keeps changing." Similar situation here. One author, different pasts. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Bigs Mate you will be pleased to know that your unique shot was taken some two thousand times or more as each troop and platoon undertook their compulsory gas training. I have literally dozens of this similar shot taken of the various troops at the gas school. The troops thought it was a hoot as did their relatives when they received the pix. As opposed to the Western Front, this exercise was not taken too seriously as the circumstances for any gas attack by either side was pointless. If 2,000 - 2,500 shells fired in an hour at Ali Muntar, a fixed defensive position made diddly squat impression, the chances of anything happening to a mobile force was minimal. For the Australians, it was like the Brodie - everyone got excited when it was issued but within a week, it just sat on the saddle as more useless junk, never to be used again. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Thanks for your comments Bill I can't figure it out either I liked your Russian story though regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearsonica Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Thanks Bill You are probably right. My Uncle served in Gallipoli, was shot through on Hill 471 and he was shot through again on the advance on Kut Mesopotania. I have only just found his photographs which tell the story of his regiment from when he joined in August 1914 to when he was killed on 4th April 1919. If you have any photos of his regiment the 9th Royal Warwickshire Regiment or Stories of their exploits I would love to hear them. Bigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Killed on April 4th 1919? Don't tease...there must be more to this story............ Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearsonica Posted 1 March , 2009 Share Posted 1 March , 2009 Bruce That is what I am trying to unravel. I have just contacted Viscount John Slim to see if he has any info left that is not kept at the Churchill Center Cambridge on his father Field Marshall Sir William Slim. Some of the pictures that my great Uncle Chris took were of a very young 2nd Lt William J Slim. which have never been seen or published until now. I have Slims book "Unofficial History" It could have done with some photographs to support the book Slim, Pearson and Gregson were the only officers of the original 9th battalion RWR who joined up in August 1914 who survived until 11th Nov 1918. As a family we were aware that Gas was used in Palistine or Mesopotania but it was only word of mouth passed down. The photo I submitted I thought proved that they were ready for it. However your Submissions above have given me the proof I needed. It also shows me that they had not a clue how to use it. They would have done better with wind generators to wip up the sand as they advanced. Regards Bigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie4798 Posted 1 March , 2009 Share Posted 1 March , 2009 great photos bigs. me grandad served with 1/10th london regiment, was killed on the last day 2nd Gaza 19th april 1917. just been reading the thread. learning something new everyday, regards to gas being used. james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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