Copyright ?

[bantamforgot]

Do divisional insignia have any copyright ?

Any ideas.?

Colin.

[old-ted]

Hi Colin, I'd never considered the question so don't know but I look forward to reading the responses of those who do. I've seen pub signs with military insignia on them.

Regards

John

[bantamforgot]

Thanks John, I did edit the thread not wishing to cause any concern to those who may be interested.

Cheers.

Colin

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Not sure of the divisional insignia. I remember reading that 617 Squadron (RAF) consulted the College of Heralds for drawing up the squadron badge in WW2.

[RobL]

They're all registered trademarks owned by the MoD, apparently. This is from a company that makes reproduction WW2 insignia

Monty's Locker is licensed by the Ministry of Defence to reproduce British WW2 Cloth Insignia. These designs are all registered trademarks of the Secretary of State for Defence and are used under licence. Insignia must not be reproduced without permission.

We offer the largest selection of British Cloth Insignia in the world and our list is ever expanding. If you have an image that we don't yet sell but you would like producing please send it to us and we can have a look at it. We do not charge set up fees and have no minimum order. We are presently extending our copyright licence to include WW1 and RAF insignia so we hope to be able to offer these shortly.

[Ron Clifton]

Ships' badges for the RN, Squadron badges for the RAF, and regimental standards and colours for the Army, were and are all designed by the College of Arms and formally approved by HM. I think it comes within the "portfolio" of one of the Kings of Arms.

The unit concerned is certainly consulted over the choice of the insignia.

Ron

[Nigel Marshall]

The RAF squadron insignia is particularly interesting. When a new Squadron was formed, presumably without any heritage, where did the badge come from?

Surely it couldn't be just made up?

I can see the roots for some of the divisional badges but not for a RAF badge.

Maybe I shouldn't be thinking along the lines of the marriages of noble families each bringing another element to the arms of a family?

Cheers,

Nigel

[Old Tom]

Hello,

It seems odd that div signs should be called trade marks. Almost looks as if someone is latching on to an easy income. One can understand that Regimental colours and badges, RAF squadron badges and insignia for HM ships have heraldic significance; but it seems unlikely that the signs of new army divisions were treated that formally. If the proposal to extend a copyright system to WW1 signs, I suppose I shall have to change my avatur. I thought copyright lapsed after a certain number of years.

Old Tom

[bantamforgot]

Hi Tom, As I have mentioned before Copyright is a nightmare & there should be revision asap.

Cheers.

Colin.

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Tom

In the UK, copyright normally expires seventy years after the death of theauthor/creator, except in the case of work unpublished at death, where I believe it subsists until publication plus seventy years. However, since the Crown never dies, it could strictly be argued that it never expires: the Authorised Version ("King James Version") of the Bible is an example.

The limit used to be fifty years but was harmonised with other EU countries some years ago.

Patents and Trademarks work differently, I think, but along similar lines.

I beleve that, in Australia, the term "ANZAC" has actually been given the same kind of protection. Perhaps one of our Oz members can clarify?

When the new series of UK banknotes was introduced, the Bank of England added a copyright mark to the designs. This meant that forgers could be sued for breach of copyright - a civil offence carrying the possibility of financial rcompensation - as well as for the criminal act of the forgery itself.

Ron

[David Seymour]

What about medals and decorations? Is there copyright on those?

David

[Ron Clifton]

I think that copying them counts as forgery, as with coinage. Copies for display purposes, or as replcements, are fairly readily obtainable from the official suppliers, so copyright would not arise.

Ron

[Terry_Reeves]

I can't comment on divisional insignia, but as far as medals and decorations are concerned ( post 11), this appears in a file aTNA - Copyright of Designs of Coinage and Medals MINT 20/2244 (1935)

“as you are doubtless aware, provision in respect of the unauthorised use and supply of Military and Air Force Decorations is made under 156a of the Army and Air Force Acts”

To put it into context, the Royal Mint was taking advice about allowing selected manufacturers access to original dies for the 1936 Coronation Medal for producing miniatures. They were concerned that others may jump on the band wagon and produce miniatures of inferior quality.

TR

[bantamforgot]

Further to the copyright problems, recently a member posted some excellent photo's of a collection from a ww1 museum. Where is the copyright if another member uses those pics. for his own use ? Or uses them for his own benefit. ie. to include in a book, who is the copyright owner.?

Colin