Egyptians in Salonica

[Ivor Lee]

There are two members of the Egyptian Labour Corps buried in Mikra British Cemetery.

I am aware 600 men were sent from Egypt to Salonika in 1916 but cannot find any record of their work.

One of the two men is shown as attached to the 7th Mounted Brigade and both are shown as dying on 2 August 1917.

So far I cannot find anything about the ELC in Salonica so wonder if any of the experts on this theatre can add any information? Also id the date significant or just a co-incidence?

Any snippets gratefully received.

Ivor

[bushfighter]

Ivor

I cannot help with information but why not place your query in the Salonika Campaign Society's newsletter?

The editor's email address is on the Society's website at: http://www.salonika.talktalk.net/

Personally I am very pleased to see your research into areas such as this. The Empire (and Protectorates see next post) provided hundreds of thousands of men for menial and manual tasks during the Great War (as well as for actual combat duties), and the efforts and sacrifices of these men who often worked in appalling conditions in dangerous areas are hardly realized or recognised today.

The historical focus is and always has been on the activities of white men, so thank you for broadening the perspective.

Good Luck

Harry

[centurion]

The Empire provided hundreds of thousands of men for menial and manual tasks during the Great War (as well as for actual combat duties),

Egypt was never part of the Empire even when administered by the British. Before 1914 there was a legal fiction that Britain was administering Egypt on behalf of the Sultan of Turkey. Obviously this became preposterous with the outbreak of war and Britain declared that Egypt was now independent but protected by Britain. It never came under the Crown. This created some issues over the status of the Egyptian Labour Corps when serving away from Egypt and I have seen various mentions that the CWGC had some discussions relating to the status of graves etc but no real details of exactly what was discussed.

[michaeldr]

quote: Personally I am very pleased to see your research into areas such as this. The Empire (and Protectorates see next post; ie post No.3) provided hundreds of thousands of men for menial and manual tasks during the Great War (as well as for actual combat duties), and the efforts and sacrifices of these men who often worked in appalling conditions in dangerous areas are hardly realized or recognised today.

The historical focus is and always has been on the activities of white men, so thank you for broadening the perspective.

Good Luck

Ivor,

I deeply regret that I have nothing useful to add

but I would like to second Harry's above remarks

and add my own wishes for 'good luck' with this subject

Michael

[centurion]

One thought. Contingents from the ELC were also sent to both Basra and Marseilles where they were involved in the loading and unloading of ships - this might have been their function at Salonika also.

[Ivor Lee]

Guys

Thanks for the suggestions

My initial thoughts were that they were used at the docks until I saw one was attached to the 7th Mounted Brigade. I wonder if he was a skilled worker, such as a saddler, attached to work with the horses. Guess it is another of those mysteries we will never get to the bottom of!

For your information there will be a section on the ELC, covering Egypt, France, Mesopotamia and Salonika in the history of the Labour Corps, which is being published in November.

The book also covers the other foreign labour contingents that served and are so often overlooked.

Ivor

[michaeldr]

Good luck with the book Ivor

& Don't forget to let the GWF know when it is available

best regards

Michael

[michaeldr]

BINGO!

See Sir A. Murray's Despatches here

http://www.archive.org/stream/sirarchibald...rrrich_djvu.txt

APPENDIX F

EGYPTIAN LABOUR CORPS

January, 1916, to June, 1917

Pages 206 to 216

but in particular See pages 209/210

Salonica: Officers 3; NCOs 5; Other Ranks 610

Salonica Draft,- A specially trained company for railway

construction was requested for work at Salonica.

Company No. 70 was selected and trained for this work and

embarked for Salonica in March last. The company was up

to establishment, and favourable reports are being received.

best regards

Michael

[Ivor Lee]

Michael

You are brilliant!

Ivor

[bushfighter]

Ivor

Are you including the Sudanese Works Battalion (from another Protected Territory) that served in the Dardanelles.

Details are in London Gazette No: 31358, 6th Supplement dated 27 May 1919, page 6491.

Harry

[Michael]

the history of the Labour Corps, which is being published in November.

Brilliant, I expect this to be the most valuable piece of work on WW1 for a number of years.

Have you tried contacting Simon Moody at the National Army Museum. He has done a lot of work on the theatre.

Mick

[michaeldr]

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/313...upplements/6491

Harry, that's fascinating

Until now I had never heard of this outfit

Thanks for the tip

Michael

ps: I have now had a chance to read the whole 10 pages

and in Lee Stack's report it is just a little difficult (for me at any rate)

to separate what is Egyptian from what is Sudanese

Perhaps Ivor can tell us if this is a 'new' outfit

or was Stack referring to the ELC

[his use of the words 'Works battalion' is confusing too - note the small 'b' in battalion;

and I see that the page is headed "Units of the Egyptian Army have been

employed outside the Sudan in the following theatres"]

Any comments?

Michael

Edited 17 February , 2009 by michaeldr

[bushfighter]

Michael

Putting it very simply, I don't think that the Sudan had any forces attributed directly to it until the formation of the Sudanese Defence Force in January 1925.

This happened after Lee Stack's assassination in Cairo in 1924.

Until then all units were part of the Egyptian Army, and British officers serving in Sudanese units were shown in Army Lists as serving in the Egyptian Army.

I think that the Works Battalion originated in Sudan and was not part of the ELC.

Harry

[Ivor Lee]

Michael is attributing me with more knowledge than I actually have.

To answer your question - I have referred to the 6 Egyptian Works Companies that served in Gallipoli. I am assuming, probably wrongly(!) that Lee Stack's report was refering to one of these companies.

In June 1915 Nos 1 to 4 Egyptian Works Companies were in the Dardenelles and 5 & 6 in Egypt (WO 95/5473)

One of the problems I have found is that often the same foreign/labour unit is referred to by a different name in different War Diaries or even in the same Diary! That is when they are mentioned - after all they were only natives!

At one stage I thought that the phrase "it appears that" would write itself.

Another problem I found was there are a number of reports that appear, particularly in contemporary books/articles, that have dubious provenance. As with the BWIR mutiny at Taranto where at least two authors talk of a man being executed after the December 1918 mutiny. One soldier was executed but for a murder he had committed in September.

What has been really frustrating is the amount I have had to leave out.

Ivor

[michaeldr]

Harry and Ivor

Thanks for your thoughts on this

and thanks again Harry for the tip-off

regards

Michael