New CWGC Commemorations

[Terry Denham]

CWGC added the following 'new' WW1 casualties to its Debt of Honour database today – Tuesday 10th February.

Nurse Lady Beatrice Hilda LEVER

Voluntary Aid Detachment, British Red Cross Society

Died 26.05.17 Age 43

Buried: Golders Green Jewish Cemetery, Middx, UK

Rfn Cecil David John SAMBROOK

C/4519 17th Bn, King’s Royal Rifle Corps

Died 27.05.17 Age 32

Buried: Dover (St James’s) Cemetery, Kent, UK

NOT FORGOTTEN

These two died only one day apart!

[John_Hartley]

Beatrice Falk got married in 1896. Her husband had been born Arthur Levy but, the same year (and perhpas, no co-incidence), he changed it to Lever. He was a Liberal MP before the war and became a baronet in 1911.

[michaeldr]

Very strange that it has taken so long to recognise this lady

as the IWM seem to have (had) her portrait

and exhibited it some years ago

see http://www.iwm.org.uk/upload/package/41/wo...ectcaptions.pdf

Beatrice, Lady Lever, who died of blood poisoning, contracted from nursing the wounded, on 28 May 1917

Glad that things have got put right in the end though

for both of these cases

[chrisharley9]

May They Rest In Peace

Dover St James is picking up a lot of new war graves

Chris

[Terry Denham]

Just over a year ago I have some email exchanges with a researcher who was doing a lot of work on Jewish non-com cases. Sadly, I cannot now trace the correspondence or his name.

These may be the result of his work as there have also been some WW2 additions in the past few days with Jewish connections. However, the Dover case could be one of Neil Clark's.

[NeilEvans]

Looks like it is one of Neil's

http://www.kentfallen.com/Forgotten%20Fallen.html

Neil

[Will O'Brien]

Raising a glass to the memory of Lady Beatrice & to Cecil

[chrisharley9]

Lady Lever's death notice from the Times 30/5/1917

[scotchegg75]

May They Rest In Peace

Dover St James is picking up a lot of new war graves

Chris

Is there a procedure that can be gone through to get a headstone as there is one that we have been looking into in Charlton Cemetery - he died in 1909 after falling from the ship Prince of Wales in Dover and doesn't have a headstone ?

[Terry Denham]

Paul

Here we are talking about Commonwealth War Graves and your man would not come under that heading due to his date of death - out of the qualifying periods.

In the situation you describe, a headstone would be the responsibility of the grave owner.

[Neil Clark]

SAMBROOK C.D.J

Dover War Memorial

Rifleman C/4519 Cecil David John SAMBROOK. 17th Battalion, King’s Royal Rifle Corps (KRRC). Died 27 May 1917 aged 32 years. Died from the effects of severe gassing. Died at Pier Cottage, Stroud Street, Dover, Kent. Born September 1884 (Dover, Kent). Enlisted 6 September 1915 (KRRC). Resided Pier Cottage, Stroud Street, Dover, Kent. Husband of Mrs E.J.E Sambrook of Pier Cottage, Stroud Street, Dover, Kent. Cecil’s wife was present at his death (it states this on his death certificate). Believed to be buried locally in the Dover area of Kent (efforts being made to trace his grave).

Before the outbreak of war Cecil was working as a Marine Fireman at Dover Docks.

Cecil’s name appears on the Dover Civic War Memorial.

Service History (for Pension Purposes)

2 May 1916 Recovered from the Field to Casualty Clearing Station (CCS).

12 May 1916 Nepthitis (Admitted Military General Hospital France)

13 May 1916 32 Casualty Clearing Station, France

13 May 1916 16 General Hospital, Le Treport, France

3 June 1916 Recovered to UK – via Newhaven

Discharged 27 September 1916 medically unfit for further war service. The service papers clearly show that his illness was as a consquence of his war service (1 year total) –

Service character GOOD (sober, honest and steady soldier). Invalided (Permanently unfit for war service – Chronic Nepthritis due to exposure and infection – The result of active service.

Awarded a full Disability War Pension by the Ministry of Pensions. Poor Cecil was dead less than a year later!

GRO Death reference - 1917 DOVER 2a 1459.

His death Certificate states clearly that Cecil was an army pensioner. It also gives a cause of death as Septicemia (12 Months). This fully supports our argument that this man is entitled to be commemorated and that he should be approved. If you work your way back 12 months from his date of death you will clearly find that he was a serving soldier when the illness started. That is good evidence.

[1690philip]

Well done to Terry and the lads.

Phil

[Sue Light]

Can anyone tell me where exactly Lady Lever was nursing when she contracted blood-poisoning? Is it not the case that in other threads, it has been stated that VADs dying at home, with no overseas service, do not qualify for commemoration, whatever the reason for their death. Although it might just be the case that if a VAD died within a military hospital, while under contract to the War Office, she could qualify for commemoration? Therefore, if Lady Lever died while serving in a private or VAD hospital run under the auspices of the Joint War Committee, she would not normally qualify. This earlier thread has some details:

 

From that thread, it almost seems as though VADs, certainly those in JWC or private hospitals were treated as civilians. I'm writing this not to detract from Lady Lever's service, or her commemoration, but feel that if her case has been accepted, might it not set a precedent for many other VADs who died in the UK in similar circumstances?

Sue

[Phil Evans]

Sue,

Lady Lever's death is registered in Chelsea District:

Deaths June Qu. 1917

Lever, Beatrice H

Age 43

Chelsea 1a 487

Phil

[Sue Light]

Thanks Phil- yes, she died at her home in Hans Crescent, but I wondered where she actually worked until her death. I feel that if this woman has been accepted by CWGC, it's a move away from their previous criteria, and that there are many more in similar circumstances,. I noticed that she had one son, Tresham, who was sixteen years old when she died, and continued to put 'In Memoriam' notices in The Times until the 1970s, shortly before his own death - more than fifty years.

Sue

[chrisharley9]

Sue

I concur with you on this one - just what is the score here

I was under the impression that VADs deaths at home were not accepted by CWGC

Chris

[Sue Light]

Chris

Whatever the criteria were originally, I'm not sure they are understood or followed now. The previous discussion on this left me feeling that home VADs should really be regarded as civilians for the purpose of commemoration. However, that never seemed right, as I can't see why a VAD working in a military hospital in France should be treated any different to one working in the UK if the other circumstances were the same.

But it was after I noticed the commemoration of Lady Lever that I started the other thread, to try and get things straight in my mind. There is quite a lot hanging on the business of whether the women were under contract to the War Office, and certainly most of those VADs who served abroad came into this category - and working under contract to the WO did then put VADs in a remarkably similar postion to members of QAIMNS and the TFNS.

So if Lady Lever was actually working in a military hospital under the WO, perhaps it might alter the situation slightly, although personally I think the chance of her doing that is virtually nil - a married woman with dependants who would be required to 'live in' does not really seem to fit. I've attached an image of her, which shows her in a uniform nothing like that of an 'ordinary' VAD, and I strongly suspect that she worked in a private hospital - perhaps a private officers' hospital. I don't know who put her commemoration forward, and on what grounds, but it seems it has been accepted by MOD according the the criteria for soldiers. But using her as a precedent, it must open up the way for many more commemorations of VADs.

Sue

[Phil Evans]

Sue,

Do you know which name she worked under?

There is a file at TNA for a Hilda Lever: WO 399/4867

QAIMNS Service Records

It's not a topic that I'm familiar with, but thought that if the record was for Lady Lever, at the time of her death, she would come under the military (as opposed to civilian, earlier in her career as VAD)

[Sue Light]

Phil

I'll have a look at the file next time I'm there. I did notice it before, but discounted it as it's almost certainly for a trained nurse, and Lady L. was a VAD at the time of her death, and that death notice higher up the thread gives her 'pet' name as 'Bee' so it seems unlikely that she was known as Hilda. But you never know ...

Pushing commemorations is not an area I'm normally involved in, but in this case it's the inconsistencies and perhaps unfairness that I've found hard to fathom. Things are much more clear cut for the soldiers, and also for the true civilians, but these women do seem to have become a confusing group.

Sue

[chrisharley9]

For Terry Denham

we need your advice here

Chris

[Terry Denham]

I have recently (after Sue's original thread) queried this issue with CWGC.

They are sticking by the criteria being death overseas or death at home due to illness/injury suffered overseas. However, they did ask for any accepted examples where this was not the case. At the time, after discussion with Jim Strawbridge, I could not provide one for which they did not have an appropriate answer.

This case does seem to be an oddity not fitting those criteria so I shall bring up the issue again and report back. The records of the old cases no longer exist and so the deliberations of the day are lost but there will be a record of deliberations on this new one!

[Sue Light]

Thank you Terry - I will be most interested in what comes to pass. When I started the first thread I made a quick note of some women who I felt might not qualify under the stated criteria, but I can't find it now. But I've just had a very quick look and one that stuck in my mind from that list was Bridget Lambarde, who died on 5 March 1919, of 'pneumonia contracted on duty,' but at the time was working in the Royal Naval Hospital, Portland, and had no apparent overseas service. Her place of work might suggest (once again) that some notice was taken of the War Office contract at the time these were put forward. A deeper look at the list could possibly show some pattern. But on the face of it, according to the criteria currently set down, she seems to be in a similar position to Lady Lever.

I must emphasise again that I'm not looking for these women to be 'de-commemorated' but perhaps trying to work out how these qualified, and how more of those uncommemorated might be included.

Sue

[chrisharley9]

Miss Jones is a non commemorated victim of the RMS Leinster sinking - Times of 18th Oct 1918

[chrisharley9]

Name: BARRETT, SOPHIA VIOLET

Initials: S V

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Nurse

Regiment/Service: Voluntary Aid Detachment

Secondary Regiment: British Red Cross Society

Date of Death: 10/10/1918

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Memorial: HOLLYBROOK MEMORIAL, SOUTHAMPTON

Yet this lady is commemorated

[Terry Denham]

Chris

I will take up this one as part of IFCP (provided the newspaper story is accurate)