Sir Arthur Currie & the libel trial.

[chris.wight]

One more for the list from the Vimy Memorial :

TUCKER, George Andrew - Private - 228255 - 19th Bn (Central Ontario) - 10/11/18

[mordac]

Hi Chris:

I received the casualty list from the CWGC today. It contains all the casualties recorded in Canada, the UK, France, Belgium and at sea. I'll concentrate on the Western Front casualties, add the serial numbers and the unit, then check the updated list against Ted Wigney's 'The C.E.F. Roll of Honour.'

I'm working on a couple of other CEF projects, so I'll post the results early next week.

Garth

P. S. - Are you enjoying the book on the Currie trial? Do you recommend buying the book?

[paul guthrie]

The book on the Currie trial is excellent and displays a good knowledge of the court system.

[chris.wight]

Hi Garth,

That was fast work by the CWGC - well done by them. I'll look forward to seeing the list, along with your comments.

Sharpe's book is worth adding to your library. He does a good job explaining the legal proceedings, and the military aspects.

There are interesting sections on just when the signal for the armistice was sent out, when/where/how many casualties were incurred, and statements from the officers of the 7th Infantry Bde.

The Army provided a list, based on individual casualty reports, for Nov 10th which gave 34 KIA, 25 wounded subsequently died (a previous list gave 8 officers/49 ORs killed) with only one man killed on Nov 11th. Too bad Sharpe didn't follow up Private Joyce's death in the archives - it would have been interesting to see what he would have said.

Reading between the lines in Will Bird's book, there must have been a sensitivity to any fatalities incurred on the 11th - witness the grilling Bird gets from the officers over the deaths of Pvts Mills, and Jones.

Garth I did enjoy reading it.

[mordac]

Hi All:

I'm working on the assumption we're only concerned about the advance on the city of Mons.

Here's a summary of the CWGC list:.

1) On November 10/11, 1918 there are 36 fatal CEF casualties in Belgium.

2) One man was with the Royal Flying Corps and can be taken off the list.

3) On November 11 the 3rd Battalion CMGC is 4 km from Mons. This makes the two 3rd Battalion CMGC casualties questionable.

4) On November 10 the 9th Brigade Canadian Field Artillery was in Ghlin. At 15:40 a shell burst on the 36th battery wounding Lieutenant Longworth who died a short time later at the dressing station. This makes the one 9th Brigade CFA casualty questionable.

5) On November 10 the PPCLI had only Number 4 Company involved at Mons. We'll include the one PPCLI casualty.

6) That leaves a total of 32 casualties.

Here's the Complete list of 36:

CUESMES COMMUNAL CEMETERY - Mons, Hainaut

A/10970 (410970), CARLETON, Percy Wainwright, Corporal, PPCLI. KIA 10th November 1918.

FRAMERIES COMMUNAL CEMETERY - Frameries, Hainaut

2537338, CURRY, Walter, Private, 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

3031460, DAWSON, Alfred Simmonds, Private, 20th Battalion. DOW 10th November 1918.

406652, GRATWICK, John, Private, 18th Battalion. DOW 10th November 1918.

ROBERTS, Maurice Cameron, Captain, M.C., "A" Coy., 19th Battalion. DOW 10th November 1918.

ROBERTSON, Cecil Ewart G., Lieutenant, 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

GHLIN COMMUNAL CEMETERY - Mons, Hainaut

3310498, GARVIN, William Franklin, Private, 3rd Battalion, Canadian Machine Gun Corps. DOW 10th November 1918.

JEMAPPES COMMUNAL CEMETERY - Mons, Hainaut

132890, BURNSIDE, Alexander, Private, 42nd Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

LONGWORTH, Frederick John, Lieutenant, M.C., 9th Brigade, Canadian Field Artillery. DOW 10th November 1918.

132904, STANLEY, Arthur Mills, Private, "C" Coy., 42nd Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

255230, WELSH, William Scott, Private, 3rd Battalion, Canadian Machine Gun Corps. DOW 10th November 1918.

MONS COMMUNAL CEMETERY - Mons, Hainaut

757008, BENNETT, William George Stanley, Private, 20th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

466663, BRIGDEN, Benjamin, Private, 42nd Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

3231310, BUTTIMER, James Clarence, Private, 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

488415, CADY, Mell, Private, Royal Canadian Regiment. KIA 10th November 1918.

3107824 , CHOWNS, William, Private, 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

507414, CRONIN, Patrick Joseph, Private 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

793792, DAIGLE, Joseph Andrew, Private, 42nd Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

514572, DAVIDSON, Samuel, Private, 20th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

58156, FAIRLEY, James Fairweather, Corporal, 20th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

916244, FISHER, Frederick George, Private, 20th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

835987, GERMAIN, Russell Longworth, Lieutenant, 20th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

124752, HALES, William, Private, 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

3032285, HOWARD, Herbert, Private, 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

3032328, JENNINGS, Clifford, Private, 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

418571, JONES, Bernard Robert, Lance Corporal, 42nd Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

3032675 MALZARD, John Stanley, Private, 19th Battalion. DOW 10th November 1918.

195336, McFAUL, Wesley Clarence, Lieutenant, 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

1263343 (2617008), McLEAN, Frank William, Private, Royal Canadian Regiment. KIA 10th November 1918.

228793, MILLS, Thomas, Private, 42nd Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

2138345, MORRIS, Charles Fredrick, Private, 20th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

675133, ROWLINSON, John Joseph Private, 18th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

3132565, SHEWFELT, Gilbert, Private, KIA 19th Battalion. 10th November 1918.

SHIELDS, Donald De Vere, Lieutenant, Royal Canadian Regiment. KIA 10th November 1918.

3230347, SIMMONS, Percy Clarence, Private, 20th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

124732, SIMON, John Abraham, Corporal, 19th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

3030990, SPENCER, James Alfred, Private, 20th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

477878, STEVENS, Thomas Edward, Private, Royal Canadian Regiment. KIA 10th November 1918.

ST. SYMPHORIEN MILITARY CEMETERY - Mons, Hainaut

256265, PRICE, George Lawrence, Private, 28th Battalion. KIA 11th November 1918. Believed to be the last Canadian battle casualty of the war (originally buried in Havre Old Communal Cemetery).

TOURNAI COMMUNAL CEMETERY ALLIED EXTENSION - Tournai, Hainaut

835027, BOYCE, David, Corporal, M.M., 20th Battalion. KIA 10th November 1918.

RODGER, William Alexander, Lieutenant, Royal Air Force, 20th Squadron. KIA 10th November 1918.

I'm sure some of the casualties from the 4th and 7th Brigades were evacuated to France. I'll work on that list next.

I've attached a pdf version of the list the CWGC e-mailed me.

Garth

CEF_Casualties.pdf

[chris.wight]

Thanks Garth - plenty to look over.

I'm not clear on what defines "killed in action" versus "died of wounds"? Does KIA mean the individual received a wound, and died instantly/shortly afterwards on the battlefield? If a soldier was wounded, and died later that same day in a casualty clearing station is that considered "died of wounds" or KIA?

[paul guthrie]

I think if a man received medical care anywhere he died of wounds.

[Guest]

More on Lt. Longworth, 9th Bde

In the book "Nova Scotia's Part in the Great War", Maj. D.A. MacKinnon, CO of the 36th Battery wrote a unit history. In describing the last days of the war he wrote "On the afternoon of the 10th we were in position at Je-Mappes, about one thousand yards from Mons. At 3.30 in the afternoon orders were received to fire on the railway at Mons, and while engaged in doing that several enemy shells were fired into the Battery, one of which instantly killed Lieut. Fred Longworth, of Charlottetown,..."

Interesting to note that the War Diary (posted earlier on this thread) stated he was wounded and died later in a dressing station.

[chris.wight]

Thanks for that John, another piece of the story comes to light.

Welcome to the Forum!

[Ken S.]

I thought it would be interesting to uncover more about the surviving Mills brother. Going on the information on Tom's paper I was assuming that they would be not that difficult to find in Montreal in either one, or both, of the 1901 and 1911 census returns. For the 1911 census, there is only one Thomas Mills recorded in the province of Quebec; his birthdate is a little off, but his mother's name is correct. Then when I checked the 1901 census, again only one Thomas Mills with a mother named Mary - but most of the information is quite different. Even so, the similarity in sibling names and birth order makes it possible that this could be the same family.

There is a James Mills in the database from Quebec - his nok is his mother, Mrs. John Mills from Montreal. However, dob is March 17, 1896.

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/image.aspx?Image=498275a&URLjpg=http%3a%2f%2fdata2.archives.ca%2fcef%2fgpc010%2f498275a.gif&Ecopy=498275a

1901 Census

1911 Census

[Ken S.]

1901 Census

1911 Census