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kelvintruss
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Recognising this site is for the Great War, does anyone know of a similar forum where I can pursue research into Machine Gun Corps activity (8 Bn I think) in Russia in 1919?

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Hello Kelt

I have a few facts and figures on the machine-gun training schools (British Military Mission, South Russia), if you feel this may be of use in your research.

Rob

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Hi Kelt

Do a search on the subject, its been discussed.

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I stand to be corrected, but the Great War did not officially end until 1921 and I believe that British involvement in Russia pre- and immediately post-1918 is considered to be 'on topic' here.

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Thanks all, I'll carry on then! Albert left a very basic diary of his time in Russia if anyine's interested. For my part, he names places that don't appear on maps - a function of his poor spelling and changes over Russia's recent history - but I would like to map out where he went. Perhaps if I reproduced his scribblings here someone might be able to add some specialist knowledge to fill out the picture? I'll get typing...

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As discussed, here is Albert's diary. I would like to validate the ship names, identify the dead referred to and locate the places mentioned, although most I suspect are mis-spelt eg Nigs Palinga, Tropsy(Tropry), Tvoitra, Kurganan, Tmolly Camp, Olga brracks

Diary of Pte Albert George Crisp MGC 11 May 1919 to 6 July 1919 and 23 Sept 1919 to 8 Oct 1919

In his own words and spelling

Sun 11 May

Starting for Russia

Mon 12th

Left Crowbroug on Monday morning reaching Newcastle at dinner time. Stayed in Newcastle

Tues 13th

Left harbor 12.45

Anchored in mid ocean ready for sailing 3am Wednesday

Wed 14th

Started to sail at 3am, held up by fog in very calm water. Anchored all night.

Thurs 15th

Entered Arctic Sea, very rough. Passed floating mine 50 ards from ship were fired at and missed.

Fri 16th

Sister ship Czaritza passed us which set off from Southampton. Sea very calm, know land seen.

Sat 17th

Sea very rough, boat rocked terribly, no land seen

Sun 18th

Know land seen, sea very rough

Mon 19th

Passing along the coasts of Norway, Sweden and Finland, coasts covered in snow. Sea still very rough. No darkness.

Tues 20th

Arrived Murmansk 3am and anchored all day, nothing to see but hills and snow.

Wed 21st

Out rowing around the ship

No darkness

Thurs 22nd

Went ashore into Murmansk, nothing to see but wooden huts and all the civilians were refugees.

Fri 23rd

Boat race between the men of the Czaritza and the Czar also officers. Officers of the Czaritza won.

Sat 24th Left Murmansk 6.30 with four other ships and two ice breakers to sail for Archangel. One day good sailing.

Sat 25th

Entire white sea all frozen, all ships are unable to move through ice being so thick 3.55am

Mon 26th

Still breaking through the ice

Tues 27th

Arrived Archangel with all the other ships and received a great reception from the Russia civilians. Also all the boats on the river were decorated with flags.

Wed 28th

All the Brigade marched through the town of Archangel, the streets all being decorated with flags, and a great amount of civilians and Russian soldiers to welcome us.

Thurs 29th

After leaving the ship to Tmolly camp into huts

Fri 30th

Inspected by General Ironsides who was in command of the Relief Force

Sat 31st

Military funeral held in Archangel, one of DLI killed in town.

Sat 1st June

Church parade in town by all the brigade

Mon 2nd

Moved from Tmolly Camp to Olga Barracks

Tues 3rd

Large march past in town, also the TBL were presented with colours given by General Grogan

Wed 4th

Went to pictures in the American YMCA

Thurs 5th

Went across the river Aztirkab to hand in surplus harness

Fri 6th

Received first pay in Russian Reubols

Sat 7th

Battalion moved off for the line on barges up the river leaving all transport till later

Sun 8th

Loading barges for the battalion

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Mon 9th

Battalion drawn 54 mules, also pack saddlery.

Tues 10th

Received the first mail June 10th

Wed 11th

Loaded transport ? ? ready to sail Thursday, and also the mules

Thurs 12th

Left Archangel to sail up the river towards the line of barge with mules, and also brigade artillery.

Fri 13th

Went ashore for exercise also gathered wood for the barge, stayed for 3 hours

Sat 14th

Sailed all day and passed troops on the way back to Archangel

Sun 15th

Arrived at the Battalion and went up to join C Coy to help in the line

Mon 16th

Arrived C Coy 8am and heard the first Bolshie shells come over

Tues 17th

Preparing to proceed to the line for an attack

Wed 18th

Rested all day to move off early morning

Thurs 19th

Left Kurganan for Tropry at 4.30am. Marched through the forest for the line arrived 12pm. Road being very dark through forest and very boggy, having one mule drowned and arrived wet through.

Fri 20th

Barrage started 4am which proved successful and then marched back to a captured village called Tropry. A while after arriving the Bolshies counterattacked but were repulsed with heavy losses

Sat 21st

Received a warm welcome by the civilians of Tropry and were given beds for rest being the first English troops seen there.

Sun 22nd

Rest all day

Mon 23rd

Went into woods searching for Bolshies and found four

Tues 24th

Transport officer from the Hants buried in Tropry who was wounded by a bullet which pierced through his back and out his stomach

Wed 25th

All men out of the villages were sent to join the Russian Army and were sent down the river to go away by barge

Thur 26th

Received the first bead ration since we left England, being six into a loaf

Fri 27th

Received a mail at Tropry

Sat 28th

Handed all mules to ASC

Sun 29th

Moved from Tropsy to Tvoitra

Mon 30th

Burial of an Artillery man who was sniped in the wood near Tvoitra

Tues 1st

Minesweeper blown up by mine on the river Dvina

Wed 2nd

Moved from the village of Tvoitra down on to the riverside

Thurs 3rd

Minesweeper blown up by mine close by where we were waiting for a barge to go down the river

Fri 4th

Naval man buried in Tvoitra churchyard who died after the minesweeper were blown up

Sat 5th

Exercised the mules around Tropsy

Sun 6th

Got on the barge at 3am and left at 4 pm

Tues 23rd September

Started to sail down the Dvina by barge for Archangel, sailed all night

Wed 24th

Stopped on riverside for wood near Ustpinega

Thurs 25th

Sent back to Nigs Palinga and stayed all day and night

Fri 26th

Left Nigs and landed Archangel and saw the Manital

Sat 27th

Got on to the Manital and sailed about dusk, and picked up A and B Company in mid stream

Sun 28th

Passed Murmansk, sea very rough

Mon 29th

No land seen sea very rough

Tues 30th

Passed mountains covered in snow and came through snow and hail storms

Wed 1st October

Passed the Burma Castle and Czaritza. Sea very rough.

Thurs 2nd

No land seen, rained all day and a very rough wind

Fri 3rd

Passed the Awkney and Shetland islands, sea very calm

Sat 4th

Called at Carno? And awaited orders which came to us by launch

Sun 5th

Anchored out all night in mid-stream at Tilbury

Mon 6th

Most of the troops disembark by ferries

Tues 7th

Left Tilbury docks early morning and came down Thames to the Royal Albert docks to unload baggage

Wed 8th

Started to unload early morning and finished late at night and then went Custom house station and from there to Purfleet and went into the dispersal camp

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A recent thread asked about widening the allowance for requests 'related' to but not directly concerning the Great War. In the response it was explained that there was already some flexibility for this, and the question of Russia in 1919 is a very good example of a 'related' topic that is perfectly valid. As Mart says it has cropped up before and SG's comments are accurate.

So, do carry on, but thank you for asking.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Kelt,

Thanks for sharing the very interesting diary of Albert Crisp. My guess would be that some of the mispelt names refer to Kurgomen (Kurganan), Topsa (Tropry), Troitsa (Tvoitra) and Ust Pinega remains as is. Sorry I cannot help you with the Soldiers who were killed but I will check a few books that I have and keep you informed if anything comes up.

Bolos and Barishynas by Singleton-Gates is available here

http://www.archive.org/stream/bolosbarishy...rich_djvu.txtou

and you might find something there.

Best of Luck

Pat

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Most certainly Russia and Serbia post 1919 are in the Great War. CWGC says the end was set at August 31, 1921.

There are good details of what happened in Russia and Serbia in the Canadian Great War History that certainly includes the actions of other nations.

Read Pages 511-523

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Saly that link isn't working Pat - any other ideas?

Kelvin

Hi Kelt,

Thanks for sharing the very interesting diary of Albert Crisp. My guess would be that some of the mispelt names refer to Kurgomen (Kurganan), Topsa (Tropry), Troitsa (Tvoitra) and Ust Pinega remains as is. Sorry I cannot help you with the Soldiers who were killed but I will check a few books that I have and keep you informed if anything comes up.

Bolos and Barishynas by Singleton-Gates is available here

http://www.archive.org/stream/bolosbarishy...rich_djvu.txtou

and you might find something there.

Best of Luck

Pat

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  • 1 month later...

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