Lice

[PhilB]

Chit chat is a most appropriate section for this. As, one assumes, the soldiers of the BEF were louse free (hadn`t been enloused in the modern vernacular) when they went to France, how come that within days they`re all crawling with lice? I know they breed fast but they don`t live naturally in the wild so what was the chief source of the infestations that seemed to quickly affect everybody?

[centurion]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Dec 10 2008, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chit chat is a most appropriate section for this. As, one assumes, the soldiers of the BEF were louse free (

Lice were also a civilian problem and I wouldn't count on there being none lurking somewhere in barracks and army camps before the troops enshipped for France.

AFAIK like fleas lice and their offspring can live off the host for a while (and the eggs can survive for a while longer). I'm sure that there must have been farm buildings, billets etc in France with reservoir populations just waiting for a new human host to arrive. Then the soldiers in place could pass on their friends to the new arrivals.

[Pighills]

As lice are still common today, the problem is still on-going. With that in mind, the information sent around to parents of school children in our school is that lice cannot survive without a host. Why then were we brought up not to share combs, brushes, hats etc?

I expect the lice came over with the men - there's always going to be someone with them - even if they were deloused when they first went over, unless (and possible even if) they did it every time men went back and forth (leave, hospital etc) they were just going to get passed around from man to man (and woman) at a rapid rate of knots.

[centurion]

As lice are still common today, the problem is still on-going. With that in mind, the information sent around to parents of school children in our school is that lice cannot survive without a host. Why then were we brought up not to share combs, brushes, hats etc?

I expect the lice came over with the men - there's always going to be someone with them - even if they were deloused when they first went over, unless (and possible even if) they did it every time men went back and forth (leave, hospital etc) they were just going to get passed around from man to man (and woman) at a rapid rate of knots.

Are you sure that your school is not confusing head lice (nits) with the body louse?

[PhilB]

As lice are still common today, the problem is still on-going.

AFAIK head lice are a current problem but not body lice?

If what you say is true, Mr Hills, wouldn`t the problem have been just as acute in barracks or billets back in UK before embarkation? Or were French billets/barns less clean than British ones?

[welshdoc]

Funny things lice, I saw an experiment where pubic (crabs) body and hair lice were marked and placed on a volunteer. Soon all 3 types migrated to their respective targets irrespective of whether the subject was lying or standing. It was a lousy experiment but what the hell.

[PhilB]

I doubt that pubic or head lice were major problems as both are spread almost exclusively by personal contact (Apart from toilet seats, of course ). I think infestations were mainly body lice, which have the peculiar ability to survive up to 30 days away from a human host. Perhaps lice weren`t a problem until the war became static and sharing of accommodation was the norm. Was the war pre-Ypres 1914 louse free?

[Pighills]

Ignore me - the paint fumes have gone to my head.

Yes, I'm getting head and body lice mixed up - sorry!!

[centurion]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Dec 10 2008, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt that pubic or head lice were major problems as both are spread almost exclusively by personal contact (Apart from toilet seats, of course ). I think infestations were mainly body lice, which have the peculiar ability to survive up to 30 days away from a human host. Perhaps lice weren`t a problem until the war became static and sharing of accommodation was the norm. Was the war pre-Ypres 1914 louse free?

Lice have always been a problem for armies on the move as well as static ones. Certainly Napoleon's armies suffered from them as did the British in the Peninsula (although the Spanish fleas were reckoned to be much worse a problem).

[centurion]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Dec 10 2008, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt that pubic or head lice were major problems as both are spread almost exclusively by personal contact (Apart from toilet seats, of course ). I think infestations were mainly body lice, which have the peculiar ability to survive up to 30 days away from a human host. Perhaps lice weren`t a problem until the war became static and sharing of accommodation was the norm. Was the war pre-Ypres 1914 louse free?

And their eggs a lot longer than that (until some nice body warmth hatches them). Thats what made them diffficult to get rid off - just wash your clothes and you might kill the lice but the eggs could still be there. Sleep in a farmers barn and the straw might contain eggs from the lice on the tramp that was there months ago

[rugby-137]

This link may help. http://www.thelearningcentre.org/ww1/sect1_p2.htm

Regards

Phil

[Gunner Bailey]

I am so glad I know nothing of lice..........

Gunner Bailey

[Chris_Baker]

May I draw your attention to John Charters' excellent MA dissertation on "Lice and louse-borne disease in the British Army on the Western Front 1914-1918": download pdf copy here

[Chris_Baker]

This link may help. http://www.thelearningcentre.org/ww1/sect1_p2.htm

Oh great. I see that site has lifted an entire page of text and images from the "Long, Long Trail" plus quite a few from firstworldwar.com. No request, no permission, just straight stealing of content.

[PhilB]

Thanks for the links. Mr Charters (p29 ff) makes clear that infestation was common before going to France and implies that inability to regularly change clothes was a major factor. Lice clearly made no distinction between officers and men but did seem to prefer those in Scottish kilted regiments! The kilt with its many pleats was very louse friendly.

[Ron Clifton]

May I draw your attention to John Charters' excellent MA dissertation ...

Are you sure it wasn't John Chatters?

Seriously though, the main contributing factor must have been the non-availability of regular washing and laundry facilities anywhere in the front line.

Ron

[Gunner Bailey]

Oh great. I see that site has lifted an entire page of text and images from the "Long, Long Trail" plus quite a few from firstworldwar.com. No request, no permission, just straight stealing of content.

Disgraceful Chris. I hope you send them a rocket!

Gunner Bailey

[Jim Clay]

Oh great. I see that site has lifted an entire page of text and images from the "Long, Long Trail" plus quite a few from firstworldwar.com. No request, no permission, just straight stealing of content.

In fairness, Chris, I note that they do acknowledge firstworldwar.com at the foot of the page:

"The text on this page has been taken from various web sites. For the full version with extra information click on the following link:

www.firstworldwar.com/features/trenchlife.htm"

Jim

[Chris_Baker]

Irrelevant. It's stealing.

[SANDY_LEISHMAN]

In the book 'With Winston Churchill at the front by X' a book almost certainly written by the Adjutant of the 6th RSF, whom Churchill was CO for a brief peroid, his battle to rid the Battalion of lice is quite well documented, I've attached a link to our Regimental Website where a copy of the book is available in 'Word' format.

http://rhf.org.uk/rhf/index.php?option=com...0&Itemid=64

[centurion]

Are you sure it wasn't John Chatters?

Seriously though, the main contributing factor must have been the non-availability of regular washing and laundry facilities anywhere in the front line.

Many dugouts etc would have become reservoirs of lice and/or their eggs and so 'clean' troops would have become reinfested despite having their smalls cleaned and pressed! What they needed was DDT

[truthergw]

According to my Grandad, soaking your kilt in petrol killed them and their eggs. I think modern day H&S may have frowned upon that practice. A tent mallet along the pleats was a common practice but probably did not get all the eggs.

[59165]

Listen very carefully.I shall say this only once....

Joking aside,I couldn't tell anyone who asked, the difference between a flea & a louse.One thing I can tell you is that I have had 1st world war 'bugs'(lice/fleas)in my house on a few occasions.

When we cleared some stuff from Bullecourt,mainly heavy ordnance,adjacent to the shells were tank parts & two of them ,I brought back to the UK.They stayed in a carrier bag for weeks or months.Hadn't been cleaned of mud but when I took them out,after the mud had dried,I saw these little white smeggers walking around on the muddy,rusty steel.

1st time this happened was from an M16 found at Monchy when we got rid of all the German Livens tubes(I dont know their German name)& it was the same.After 2 or 3 days,these things awoke or hatched & came out of the dried mud.

All of these things came from at least 1 metre underground.Never been ploughed to this depth ,the local fields ,& stuck to metallic fragments found in clay.

Itchy

[PhilB]

Having seen the efforts some soldiers made (following advice from other squaddies) to get rid of "personal" infestations, I bet there are some bizarre stories of amateur attempts to delouse! Ask around an army camp in the 50s and you got some very iffy sounding concoctions.

[Rob Connolly]

Re improvised "cures" - wrong era, but Bob Crisp tried petrol to get rid of pubic lice at the recommendation of others. The results were extremely painful and embarassing - for him. The lice appeared unaffected.