Crawshey Bailey had an engine..

[geraint]

Robert Graves wrote of this song in his book _Goodbye To All That_:

"I went off for a sleep. The time between stand-to and breakfast was the

easy part of the day. The men who were not getting in a bit of extra

sleep sat about talking and smoking, writing letters home, cleaning

their rifles, running their thumb-nails up the seams of their shirts to

kill the lice, gambling. Lice were a standing joke. Young Bumford handed

me one like this. 'We was just having an argument as to whether it was

best to kill the old ones or the young ones, sir. Morgan here says that

if you kill the old ones, the young ones will die of grief, but Parry

here, sir, he says that the young ones are easier to kill and you can

catch the old ones when they come to the funeral.' He appealed to me as

an arbiter. 'You've been to college, sir, haven't you?' I said: 'Yes, I

had, but so had Crawshay Bailey's brother Norwich.' This was held to be

a wonderfully witty answer. Crawshay Bailey is one of the idiotic songs

of Wales. (Crawshay Bailey himself 'had an engine and he couldn't make

it go,' and all his relations in the song had similar shortcomings.

Crawshay Bailey's brother Norwich, for instance, was fond of oatmeal

porridge, and was sent to Cardiff College, for to get a bit of

knowledge.) After that I had no trouble with the platoon at all."

Crawshay Bailey was a ninteenth century iron magnate in South Wales, and the variations on this are still sung today. Does anyone know any other Great War period verses? There were quite a few lewd ones around as well.

Here's a specific Great War one

Crawshay Bailey's brother Harris

Was a soldier up in Arras

When the Jerries started shooting

In the dugout 'ee was hiding

Did you ever see, did you ever see

Did other areas have similar songs? There was a reference some time ago on this forum to a Bedfordshires song.

My Brother Sylvest also has great war references (He's got a row of twenty medals on his chest! Big chest!). I've a feeling that Sylvest was an Irish song; but stand to be corrected.

[centurion]

I can vaguely remember this

The song as I remember started

Cosher Baily had an engine

That was always needin mendin

The last two lines were always

Did you effer see did you effer see

Did you effer see such a silly sight before.

And I don't even come from Wales

[IanA]

Crawshay Bailey had an engine,

It was always needin mendin,

When he drove it at full power

It did do four miles an hour.

Crashay had a cousin Rupert,

Who did play scrum half for Newport,

When he played against Llanelli

Someone kicked him in the belli.

[truthergw]

I went to school in Dundee with a boy from Wales. Ernie's dad was a Salvation Army Officer posted to Dundee. Ernie knew several dozen verses to that song any one of which, to this day, could get you penal servitude.

[geraint]

Yes Tom. His cousin Dennis ...always had problems with a part of his anatomy!

Any similar rhythmic banters up north?

[IanA]

Na. Naethin here. 'The Ball of Kirriemuir'? Never heard of it.

[geraint]

Yes Ian. Often sung in rugby clubs! First world War connotations?

[Ron Clifton]

I think Max Boyce popularised it in the sixties, corrupted to "Cosher Bailey" as centurion remembers. He made subtle changes to the rhymes such as cousin Rupert getting kicked in the STOMACH, and another favourite:

Cosher Bailey's cousin Willy

Once played soccer for Caerphilly

Oh, but when he switched to rugger

He looked such a silly Billy.

Did you ever, etc.

And Ian, I think "The Ball of Kerriemuir" has faded from modern memory. These days you can't find 24 to come down from Inverness - or so my Scots friends tell me.

Ron

[centurion]

Once went to a ball (well a Saturday night hop) in Kirriemuir - a very tame affair - most disappointing

[daggers]

It is only a couple or three decades since a couple of books of 'Rugby songs' were published, and I think records as well, featuring J.Strapp's Elastic Band and some semi-drunken singers. Quite liberal for those days, many of the songs had many, many verses...

I think many of those songs were equally at home in the barrack room, canteen, back of a three-tonner and even the officers' mess.

What happened to those books?

D

[truthergw]

Once went to a ball (well a Saturday night hop) in Kirriemuir - a very tame affair - most disappointing

It wis shairly no' in the berry season.

[Ron Clifton]

It is only a couple or three decades since a couple of books of 'Rugby songs' were published ,,, What happened to those books?

My copies are at the back of a cupboard somewhere!

When I went to work in London in 1975, the Head of Dept's secretary, a rather stern and forbidding woman in her fifties, when speaking of an incident at home, said "Ah well, ours is not a happy household" to which I responded "Faces seldom wreathed in smiles?" The forbidding facade cracked and we were firm friends from then on - a useful contact to have in the early part of my career!

Ron

[geraint]

Ron- where do those lines come from?

Back to thread: Any views on Sylvest and his Great War connection?

[daggers]

Cats/rooftops, at a guess?

D

[Ron Clifton]

Ron- where do those lines come from?

Heard many years ago on TV. Probably Max Boyce, or another Welsh comedian of similar vintage.

I don't think I have seen them written down anywhere.

There were a few more verses, but in deference to the WW1 rule, and to our lady and other sensitive Pals, I won't quote them!

Ron

[geraint]

"Ours is not a happy household

Faces seldom wreathed in smiles"

NOT Max Boyce!

That is poetry on a good scale.

[Ron Clifton]

"Ours is not a happy household

Faces seldom wreathed in smiles"

Sorry geraint, I thought you meant "But when he switched to rugger" etc.

The "happy household" one comes from a Rugby song, in one of the paperbacks referred to from the 1960s (possibly edited by Michael Green, and called Rugby Songs and More Rugby Songs, IIRC).

Also known as "Life presents a dismal picture" and sung to the tune "Austria".

Ron

[Scalyback]

On 06/12/2008 at 16:16, geraint said:

Robert Graves wrote of this song in his book _Goodbye To All That_:

"I went off for a sleep. The time between stand-to and breakfast was the

easy part of the day. The men who were not getting in a bit of extra

sleep sat about talking and smoking, writing letters home, cleaning

their rifles, running their thumb-nails up the seams of their shirts to

kill the lice, gambling. Lice were a standing joke. Young Bumford handed

me one like this. 'We was just having an argument as to whether it was

best to kill the old ones or the young ones, sir. Morgan here says that

if you kill the old ones, the young ones will die of grief, but Parry

here, sir, he says that the young ones are easier to kill and you can

catch the old ones when they come to the funeral.' He appealed to me as

an arbiter. 'You've been to college, sir, haven't you?' I said: 'Yes, I

had, but so had Crawshay Bailey's brother Norwich.' This was held to be

a wonderfully witty answer. Crawshay Bailey is one of the idiotic songs

of Wales. (Crawshay Bailey himself 'had an engine and he couldn't make

it go,' and all his relations in the song had similar shortcomings.

Crawshay Bailey's brother Norwich, for instance, was fond of oatmeal

porridge, and was sent to Cardiff College, for to get a bit of

knowledge.) After that I had no trouble with the platoon at all."

Crawshay Bailey was a ninteenth century iron magnate in South Wales, and the variations on this are still sung today. Does anyone know any other Great War period verses? There were quite a few lewd ones around as well.

Here's a specific Great War one

Crawshay Bailey's brother Harris

Was a soldier up in Arras

When the Jerries started shooting

In the dugout 'ee was hiding

Did you ever see, did you ever see

Did other areas have similar songs? There was a reference some time ago on this forum to a Bedfordshires song.

My Brother Sylvest also has great war references (He's got a row of twenty medals on his chest! Big chest!). I've a feeling that Sylvest was an Irish song; but stand to be corrected.

Strangely there is another Great War link. Crawshey Bailey had a son called Crawshey Bailey Jr(how original). Jr created Bailey park in Abergavenny. 

Bailey Park was used as a meeting point for the Royal Mons Regiment in readiness for going off to the front in World War I. War broke out on 4th August 1914 and the order to mobilise the 3rd Mons was received at 6.10pm on the same day. Throughout the night of the 4th, the companies from the various towns and villages mustered and caught trains to Abergavenny: the whole battalion gathered outside the Market Hall at dawn on 5th August. Later, they marched on to Bailey Park, where they were given tea.

[Dragon]

The version I knew was "Did you ever saw, did you ever saw ... such a funny thing before?" which rhymes.

Dreadful man.  He and his ilk and his industry were instrumental in turning me into an eleven year old socialist. I would have been waving my red flag in Merthyr in 1831. My mum stopped me from reading Rape of the Fair Country because she thought it was about sex, but my dad intervened and I finished the trilogy.

[geraint]

4 hours ago, Dragon said:

The version I knew was "Did you ever saw, did you ever saw ... such a funny thing before?" which rhymes.

Dreadful man.  He and his ilk and his industry were instrumental in turning me into an eleven year old socialist. I would have been waving my red flag in Merthyr in 1831. My mum stopped me from reading Rape of the Fair Country because she thought it was about sex, but my dad intervened and I finished the trilogy.

Quite right! The Homphrays at Dowlais, The Guest family, the Crawshays, and all the iron masters of the valleys really despoiled our fair land Gwyn. The 1831 'rioters' were only demanding 'bara caws' - bread and cheese! Dic Penderyn, at 22 years of age was hanged as a scapegoat. His last words were "O Arglwydd dyma gamwedd!" "Oh Lord - this is a mis-justice!" How Green Was My Valley is the standout period book for me.

I'm also aware of the Crawshay's Fifteen which was a sort of combi valleys super rugby team which went on tour. Played against them at Ruthin back in the day when I was an Adonis-like youth. We lost 76 -0.

Back to the Great War thread - how many men left those steelworks and coal mines to enlist in the war? Their natural regiments would have been the SWB and The Welch I suppose.

Having said that how did this thread leap out 15 years since it's inception? Scalyback -explain!

[Dragon]

9 minutes ago, geraint said:

Quite right! The Homphrays at Dowlais, The Guest family, the Crawshays, and all the iron masters of the valleys really despoiled our fair land Gwyn. The 1831 'rioters' were only demanding 'bara caws' - bread and cheese! Dic Penderyn, at 22 years of age was hanged as a scapegoat. His last words were "O Arglwydd dyma gamwedd!" "Oh Lord - this is a mis-justice!" How Green Was My Valley is the standout period book for me.

 

Cordell's This Sweet and Bitter Earth gives a good picture of life in the slate industry in the years as war approached (and the oppression by Lord Penrhyn - I had an uncomfortable conversation with a descendant at that ghastly pile near Bangor - it wasn't me who was uncomfortable) and then the coal industry around Blaenafon, lest anyone be inclined to look at the pre-War years as some sort of lost floral pastel idyll. I will avoid further comment as most of my history of that period was influenced by Gwyn Alf and Saunders Lewis (who served in the Great war, SWB, and was wounded at Cambrai) so it could rapidly become political. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

18 minutes ago, Dragon said:

Lord Penrhyn - I had an uncomfortable conversation with a descendant at that ghastly pile near Bangor - it wasn't me who was uncomfortable)

....and was that before or after you got round to mentioning their links to slavery?

[Dragon]

After. The person was being a bit vague about wealth and before I knew what was in my head the word sugar slipped out of my mouth and flew around the room like a dark raven.

Edited 22 February by Dragon

[geraint]

I wonder what Prof Gwyn Alf Williams would have made of it all! I remember picking him up, with the help of other students, blind drunk, from the floor at a Gregynnog  during an U of W history convention when I was a student. and tucking him in gently to bed. Socialism gave me sinews.

[Muerrisch]

HQ Number One Group RAF Officers' Mess in about 1980 had a lot of leather bound copies of THE SONGBOOK..

At Friday Happy Hours the AOC , a famous RAF rugby player and patron, would demand "get the book out!" The pianist was often a female officer who declared that she had heard it all before.

The Good Ship Venus, The Ball Of Kirriemuir, The Ballad of Deadwood Dick ................ a few beers and a curry. Magic.

Followed by phoning home and asking to be collected "as I have a nasty headache".