The Narrow Gauge Railways.

[Guest Trainmad]

Hi. I'm new here and I don't know a thing about the Great War. If you look at my username it is Trainmad. Please could somebody, (if they know anything about the narrow gauge railways,) tell me somethings about them. What conditions did they run in, who drove them, and other sorts of things. If there is a website anyone knows of could you tell me about it?

Thanks

Trainmad

[Paul Reed]

You should have watched 'Salvage Squad' on Ch4 the other day!

A good source is Keith Taylorson Narrow Gauge at War (2 vols), published by Plateway Press in the UK. I only have Vol 2 and the ISBN for that is: 1 871980 29 1.

There are surviving examples in the Chalkpits museum at Amberley, Sussex, and at the Petit Train de la Somme here in France.

During WW1 train units were under the command of the Railway Operating Department (ROD) of the Royal Engineers; the RE Museum in Chatham may also have further information.

[john w.]

trainmad

if you have satellite then discovery home and leisure are running a series on trains more in general on Trains.....

There was some refernce to the use of trains on the Timewatch prog tonight on BBC2

John

[Chris_Baker]

Welcome to the forum, Trainmad.

There is some info about the Royal Engineers Railway Companies on the main site. Click on Engineers on the main page first. However, this is strictlyabout standard gauge. I have not yet got to write anything about narrow gauge.

However, inspired by a bit of research that I did recently on a man who was transferred from an infantry battalion to a narrow-gauge company (because of pre-war mine railway experience), I have become rather interested in it.

Here is something that you may find interesting:

The war history of the 31st Light Railway Operating Company of the Railway Operating Department, Royal Engineers

Based on extracts from “The light track from Arras”, by T.R.Heritage.

(This book is modern and a delight to read; it is a collection of personal memoirs of men of the Company). The extract is mine, so it is an interpretation of the book, if you like.

Introduction

Although the British Army on the Western Front used French broad gauge railways to move men, equipment and supplies from the Channel Ports to the Divisional railheads from the earliest days of the Great War, it relied on largely on horsed transport to move it from there to the front lines until the formation of the Light Railways companies in early 1917. This innovation was one of the factors that transformed the operational abilities of the army: until that time, ammunition supply in particular had been subject to delays and required vast numbers of men and horses, and the railways overcome both problems. Traffic and wear on the roads and tracks leading up to the front was eased.

The first light railway worked by the British was also a French one. It had a track gauge of 60cm (2 feet), and this was applied to all light railways constructed by the British. The British system developed tracks that were prefabricated in lengths, that were in themselves very lightweight. They could be carried easily, and laid quickly. For lengths of rail that were more permanent, they were laid like full-size tracks, with sleepers and stone ballast.

The Light Railway Companies came into existence when it became clear that the maintenance of roads was becoming a severe problem; in February 1916 the first new railways were sanctioned. Of course, by this time the warfare on the Western Front had become one of fairly static trench lines. It made sense to feed them using fairly static transport systems.

The Light Railway Operating Company consisted of approximately 200 men, in a number of trades: Drivers, Brakesmen, Guards, Wagon Repairers, Repair Shop Engineers, Traffic controllers, and Storesmen. There were few officers among this number (the 31st was commanded by a Captain). The job of the Company was to run the trains, with the tracks being laid by RE Railway Engineers often with the assistance of whatever Labour Corps Company or ‘resting’ infantry were at hand.

31st Light Railway Operating Company

Formed in Boulogne in late February and early March 1917.

Moved to Maroeuil (on the River Scarpe, and a railway line), north-west of Arras, and built a Company HQ and camp there that remained until March 1918. Used an old cotton mill as base. On first arrival they took over about six of the standard workhorses of the light railways, the 20hp Simplex petrol locomotive.

Took over the operations of all light railways in the Arras area, supplying the front-line and artillery units of Third Army. The main lines appear to have been the ones running out of Arras to the east, along the Scarpe valley towards the front-line positions of Fampoux.

The main pick-up point for goods to be carried was called “Q Dump”. From there, ammunition, trench supplies, timber, men and a myriad other supplies would be carried forward. Men, wounded, and salvage were the main cargoes for return journeys.

The men of the LROC enjoyed a considerable amount of individual freedom – quite necessary as they were charged with moving trains to and fro, getting them re-railed and repaired when accidents or break-downs occurred, etc. The officers and NCOs of the Company appear to have had a sensible attitude, that as long as men were back at camp when they should be, all was well. A simple recreation was going to the YMCA hut in nearby Etrun for a cup of tea.

The 31st worked the lines in front of Arras (including during the Battle of Arras in April 1917, when British artillery finally overcame its former supply difficulties and overwhelmed the enemy) until forced to move back in March and April 1918, when the enemy attacked in great force. The Third Army front was pushed back some way, but held. By May 1918, the 31st HQ was at Fosseux, a few miles further west of Arras, with the locomotives at Bernville. Much track had been lost to the enemy, and much more damaged, so the immediate task was to restore operating efficiency.

In August 1918, an Allied offensive opened that was to win the war. For the 31st, it many months of gradually extending the lines to keep up with the advancing armies, and all the time moving their centre of operations forward. The distance to be covered kept extending, as the attacking infantry moved much faster than the supply centres could move up. They moved first to the east of Arras, then further on to Bapaume, then Bourlon near Cambrai.

Hope that gives you a good start!

PS I only found out about the book by trawling the web. I could not believe that a book existed about the Company that the chap I was researching was posted to! You can buy it on-line from the publishers at

Transport Diversions. Their service was first-rate.

[Guest Trainmad]

Thanks. I did see Salvage Squad. I and a few others on the Uktrainsim forum were suprised they did not see the Ffestiniogs Simplex.

Thanks for all that info Chris_Baker.

I am also doing the Great War at school!

[Kate Wills]

The authorative book on the subject, and long out of print, is

Light Railways of the First World War by Davies, WJK

Published by David and Charles (1960's I think)

Copies are like gold dust, however. You may be able to borrow it through the UK inter library loan system.

There are some WW1 items to be found at the Leighton Buzzard Narrow Gauge Railway which has a web site at

http://www.buzzrail.co.uk/

Kate (& Martin)

[zijde26]

To Trainmad,

For info. Trench maps from 1ww show a high number of railway tracks.

The book "The war behind the front" shows a photograph of such a track.

Gilbert Deraedt

[Guest sp762]

I posted this in reply to another thread - in the wanted section. However it occurs to me that it may be more relevant in this thread.

"Light Rails to Arras" - the Heritage book is out of print.

Neither Transport Diversions, Robert Humm, not the publisher had copies in stock, however, I just picked up a copy from Titfield booksellers - very reasonably too.

Trainmad and I are working on very similar projects for Microsoft Train Simulator - but with subtle differences. My plan is to recreate the First Army Light Railway system as it was in May 1918 complete with rolling stock and vignettes.

Some stock pictures:

This is a progress shot of a Dick Kerr PE tractor

A Baldwin 4-6-0 shunts D wagons (At Twywn, I think) Baldwin by Kevin Martin, wagons by me.

My immediate task at the moment (apart from building trains) is finding suitably detailed maps of the area so I can produce an accurate 3D contour layer. I may have sourced a copy of "Topography of Armageddon" - but it's in Sydney - might as well be on Mars (at least for the time being).

I don't know how much interest you guys will have in this enterprise - but all offers of help gratefully recieved. (especially scans of 1:10,000 or 1:20,000 maps of the Arras/Bethune area or Vimy Ridge)

My other interest is the Australian LROC - which is scantily covered in Vol 2 of Narrow Gauge at War - in fact this may be the sum total of the available information.

I'll keep you up to date with progress, if there's any interest.

Cheers

Mike

[Paul Reed]

Naval & Military Press have copies of 'Topography of Armageddon' in their latest list:

http://www.naval-military-press.co.uk/

But the maps are in B/W, which might mean they are difficult to work out.

Guy Smith worked on the N&MP CD Rom of trench maps; might be worth contacting him via his website:

http://www.smithmaps.fsnet.co.uk/indexmap.htm

[Nicolas G.]

Hello "Trainmad" & others.

I also underlined the role of that kind of train and its tracks to feed the front and for wounded soldiers. Note that just after the war it was re-used to clean and rebuilt as you can see in the following picture you may appreciate :

Regards,

Nicolas

[Pete Smith]

Nicholas

Do you have any other photo's of locos.

I am particularily interested in a Loco with the name "Foche" which worked on the French Artillary Railways. It is preserved in working condition at the West Lancashire Light Railwayin UK. We are trying to trace anything on its original working life.

Any help would be great.

Cheers

Pete

[RERAASC]

Welcome to the forum, Trainmad.

There is some info about the Royal Engineers Railway Companies on the main site. Click on Engineers on the main page first. However, this is strictlyabout standard gauge. I have not yet got to write anything about narrow gauge.

However, inspired by a bit of research that I did recently on a man who was transferred from an infantry battalion to a narrow-gauge company (because of pre-war mine railway experience), I have become rather interested in it.

Here is something that you may find interesting:

The war history of the 31st Light Railway Operating Company of the Railway Operating Department, Royal Engineers

Based on extracts from "The light track from Arras", by T.R.Heritage.

(This book is modern and a delight to read; it is a collection of personal memoirs of men of the Company). The extract is mine, so it is an interpretation of the book, if you like.

Introduction

Although the British Army on the Western Front used French broad gauge railways to move men, equipment and supplies from the Channel Ports to the Divisional railheads from the earliest days of the Great War, it relied on largely on horsed transport to move it from there to the front lines until the formation of the Light Railways companies in early 1917. This innovation was one of the factors that transformed the operational abilities of the army: until that time, ammunition supply in particular had been subject to delays and required vast numbers of men and horses, and the railways overcome both problems. Traffic and wear on the roads and tracks leading up to the front was eased.

The first light railway worked by the British was also a French one. It had a track gauge of 60cm (2 feet), and this was applied to all light railways constructed by the British. The British system developed tracks that were prefabricated in lengths, that were in themselves very lightweight. They could be carried easily, and laid quickly. For lengths of rail that were more permanent, they were laid like full-size tracks, with sleepers and stone ballast.

The Light Railway Companies came into existence when it became clear that the maintenance of roads was becoming a severe problem; in February 1916 the first new railways were sanctioned. Of course, by this time the warfare on the Western Front had become one of fairly static trench lines. It made sense to feed them using fairly static transport systems.

The Light Railway Operating Company consisted of approximately 200 men, in a number of trades: Drivers, Brakesmen, Guards, Wagon Repairers, Repair Shop Engineers, Traffic controllers, and Storesmen. There were few officers among this number (the 31st was commanded by a Captain). The job of the Company was to run the trains, with the tracks being laid by RE Railway Engineers often with the assistance of whatever Labour Corps Company or 'resting' infantry were at hand.

31st Light Railway Operating Company

Formed in Boulogne in late February and early March 1917.

Moved to Maroeuil (on the River Scarpe, and a railway line), north-west of Arras, and built a Company HQ and camp there that remained until March 1918. Used an old cotton mill as base. On first arrival they took over about six of the standard workhorses of the light railways, the 20hp Simplex petrol locomotive.

Took over the operations of all light railways in the Arras area, supplying the front-line and artillery units of Third Army. The main lines appear to have been the ones running out of Arras to the east, along the Scarpe valley towards the front-line positions of Fampoux.

The main pick-up point for goods to be carried was called "Q Dump". From there, ammunition, trench supplies, timber, men and a myriad other supplies would be carried forward. Men, wounded, and salvage were the main cargoes for return journeys.

The men of the LROC enjoyed a considerable amount of individual freedom – quite necessary as they were charged with moving trains to and fro, getting them re-railed and repaired when accidents or break-downs occurred, etc. The officers and NCOs of the Company appear to have had a sensible attitude, that as long as men were back at camp when they should be, all was well. A simple recreation was going to the YMCA hut in nearby Etrun for a cup of tea.

The 31st worked the lines in front of Arras (including during the Battle of Arras in April 1917, when British artillery finally overcame its former supply difficulties and overwhelmed the enemy) until forced to move back in March and April 1918, when the enemy attacked in great force. The Third Army front was pushed back some way, but held. By May 1918, the 31st HQ was at Fosseux, a few miles further west of Arras, with the locomotives at Bernville. Much track had been lost to the enemy, and much more damaged, so the immediate task was to restore operating efficiency.

In August 1918, an Allied offensive opened that was to win the war. For the 31st, it many months of gradually extending the lines to keep up with the advancing armies, and all the time moving their centre of operations forward. The distance to be covered kept extending, as the attacking infantry moved much faster than the supply centres could move up. They moved first to the east of Arras, then further on to Bapaume, then Bourlon near Cambrai.

Hope that gives you a good start!

PS I only found out about the book by trawling the web. I could not believe that a book existed about the Company that the chap I was researching was posted to! You can buy it on-line from the publishers at

Transport Diversions. Their service was first-rate.

Just a line to say thank you - I read your post and got a copy of the book online. I too was researching a man from the 31 LRO Coy, my great grandfather, who is listed in the book by Heritage as sgt, breakdown gang, though by 1918 my great grandfather was CQMS of the coy and awarded the MSM for his efforts. I wonder if you have any other useful references re the unit now? I realise it's a long time since you left your post but it helped me 8 years later - so thanks again.

[purley]

Prety well all of the light railways used the Decauville system - This applies to French and German as well as British. The system was a bit like an overlarge Hornby railway with track sections built in small units which could be bolted together to meet requirements. As the sections could easily be carried by a squad of men (usually from a labour battalion supervised by RE) you could lay track very quickly - a train with sections on it would follow the crews laying the track so they never had very far to carry the sections.

I have been trying to attach a photo of some sample sections from the Railway Museum in Thesaloniki - if it doesnt come out I will try again later.

After the war the Government sold off the track and rolling stock to mines and quarries (mainly) and there is still a vast amount of it around if you visit the narrow gauge railways of England and Wales.

regards

John

[pressgang1972]

Just a line to say thank you - I read your post and got a copy of the book online. I too was researching a man from the 31 LRO Coy, my great grandfather, who is listed in the book by Heritage as sgt, breakdown gang, though by 1918 my great grandfather was CQMS of the coy and awarded the MSM for his efforts. I wonder if you have any other useful references re the unit now? I realise it's a long time since you left your post but it helped me 8 years later - so thanks again.

Hi,

My Grandfather was also a member of 31 LRO Coy, Sgt Tom Storey. I am trying to track down where the men who formed the company actually came from. My grandfather worked for the Midland Railway before (and after) the War, but was recruited from a line regiment after the Somme, which from Heritage's introduction seems to have been quite common. Have you tracked down any more of the men?

[scottmarchand]

Hi,

I have a transcript of a personal diary kep by a CEF officer who was with the forestry corp and lter 7th CRT in Frnace, lots' about the logistics of teh supply trains, challeneges etc. quite detailed and informative, PM me with your e-mail and I'll send you a copy as I've converted it to PDF format.

[RERAASC]

Hi,

My Grandfather was also a member of 31 LRO Coy, Sgt Tom Storey. I am trying to track down where the men who formed the company actually came from. My grandfather worked for the Midland Railway before (and after) the War, but was recruited from a line regiment after the Somme, which from Heritage's introduction seems to have been quite common. Have you tracked down any more of the men?

Sorry I've taken a while to get back - I haven't been on the site for a while - my great grandfather was William Cowley Orrick. He was a blacksmith who joined the Tyneside Irish in 1914, but as he was missing half his trigger finger from an accident at work after a couple of months they discharged him. He then joined the Yorks and Lancs in 1915 and went to France. At some stage he was gassed and ended up as Colour Sergeant in the Yorkshire Regiment ( The Green Howards ) and from then in 1917 to the 31 LRO Coy where Heritage has him listed as Sjt in the Breakdown Gang. By 1918 when he was awarded the MSM he was CQMS of the company as evident in the London Gazette. He was born in Gateshead but moved to Sunderland not long before the war started.

Sapper 31

[pressgang1972]

Sorry I've taken a while to get back - I haven't been on the site for a while - my great grandfather was William Cowley Orrick. He was a blacksmith who joined the Tyneside Irish in 1914, but as he was missing half his trigger finger from an accident at work after a couple of months they discharged him. He then joined the Yorks and Lancs in 1915 and went to France. At some stage he was gassed and ended up as Colour Sergeant in the Yorkshire Regiment ( The Green Howards ) and from then in 1917 to the 31 LRO Coy where Heritage has him listed as Sjt in the Breakdown Gang. By 1918 when he was awarded the MSM he was CQMS of the company as evident in the London Gazette. He was born in Gateshead but moved to Sunderland not long before the war started.

Sapper 31

Thanks for the info. Did your Great Grandfather have a railway background? It would be interesting to find out how he transferred from the infantry to the RE. The introduction to Heritage's book suggests that volunteers were sought with Railway experience, but I'm not sure how widely this was advertised. Both Heritage and my grandfather were in the same division. Perhaps it was geographical or just an army-wide call for qualified men.

Pressgang

[healdav]

A couple of weeks ago I was walking through a small French village, and somewhat to my surprise found that an enterprising farmer was using a length of narrow gauge rail track as a ladder!

[Moonraker]

Firing Up and Running the WWI Davenport Trench Locomotive

[The Scorer]

On 02/06/2023 at 16:40, Moonraker said:

Firing Up and Running the WWI Davenport Trench Locomotive

Excellent, thanks. 

[Moonraker]

WWI Footage: Narrow Gauge Train Lines in France

[The Scorer]

On 04/06/2023 at 18:54, Moonraker said:

WWI Footage: Narrow Gauge Train Lines in France

Thanks; I'll have to have a better look at this later. 

[Moonraker]

WW1 Commemoration on French Narrow Gauge Railway

(Cappy Froissy Dompierre Railway)