2nd Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers: Casualties 10th July 1917

[kmcs]

Hello everyone,

Just joined the forum and I have to say how impressed I am with the way members try so hard to help each to find answers to the questions that are posted. I have a question myself which I hope one of you may be able to help me with.

I am researching my Grand Uncle, Private Patrick McSweeney 10288, who appears on the CWGC as being killed in action on July 10th 1917, whilst serving with the 2nd Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers. He is buried at Coxyde cemetry in Belgium along with a number of other men from the same battalion. I actually went to Kew last week to try and find out a little bit of the actual circumatances leading up to his death and managed to find some interesting stuff from the 2nd battalions war diary for that day. The thing is, the diary entry actualy lists the name and numbers of 7 men killed that day but Patrick Mc Sweeney's name is not shown! I fell certain that he was killed during the large German offensive that took place that day. The fact that all 7 men from the 2nd battalion RMF killed that day are all buried at Coxyde makes me think I may be correct (one of them is actually buried in the grave beside him). Any ideas why Patrick McSweeney's name might not appear in the War diary for that day? Also, are there any Irish archives anywhere that might have a picture of my Grand Uncle? (the family didn't keep any as far as I can tell).

Thank you.

Kevin Mc Sweeney

[devonmaid]

From SDGW (Soldiers Died in the Great War) also gives the same date of death.

Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919

Name: Patrick MCSWEENEY

Regiment, Corps etc.: Royal Munster Fusiliers

Battalion etc.: 2nd Battalion.

4.8.14 Malplaquet Barracks, Aldershot: 1st (Guards) Bde. 1st Div. 14.8.14 landed at Havre. 14.9.14 to Army Troops. 9.11.14 to 3rd Bde. 1st Div. 30.5.16 absorbed 7 officers and 140 men from the disbanded 9th Bn. 3.2.18 to 48th Bde. 16th Div. 19.4.18 reduced to training cadre and surplus personnel to 1st Bn. 31.5.18 to 94th Bde. 31st Div. 6.6.18 reconstituted with drafts from the disbanded 6th Bn. 16.6.18 to L. of C. 15.7.18 to 150th Bde. 50th Div. at Martin Eglise. 11.11.18 150th Bde. 50th Div. France; Sars Poteries, N.E. of Avesnes.

Last name: Mcsweeney

First name(s): Patrick

Initials: P

Birthplace: Macroom, Co. Cork

Enlisted: Limerick

Residence: Macroom

Rank: PRIVATE

Number: 10288

Date died: 10 July 1917

How died: Killed in action

Theatre of war: France & Flanders

Ellie

[devonmaid]

[devonmaid]

Kevin

Hello & welcome to the forum.

According to Geoffs search engine there are 9 men from 2nd Battalion RMF including your Great uncle who died on July 10th 1917. The soldier buried in the next grave to him is Samuel Brierley from Ravensthorpe, Dewsbury ( Grave ref:- I.I.41 ). Not sure why he isn't mentioned in the war diary, perhaps another member with more knowledge about this regiment could help you futher.

Ellie

[kmcs]

Ellie,

Thank you so much for your messages! I certainly didn't expect such a prompt reply to my query. I am very impressed and very grateful to you for taking time out to answer my query and for providing me with such a great information re: my Grand Uncle.

I would love to find out a bit more about the 2nd battalion RMF, especially around the time of July 1917. Would you by chance know of any persons or organisations that might hold detailed information of that sort? Did the various battalions that fought in the Great War each have a central headquaters or something of that sort, where records and pictures might be kept?

Just to complicate my search it would appear from Patrick's medal card that he actually started off in Gallipoli (2B Balkans) in September 1915, which would place him in the 6th or 7th battalion RMF. I guess there is no real way of finding out when he transferred to the 2nd battalion. I suppose individual names were not recorded on those occasions.

Kevin.

[Gerry White]

Hello everyone,

Just joined the forum and I have to say how impressed I am with the way members try so hard to help each to find answers to the questions that are posted. I have a question myself which I hope one of you may be able to help me with.

I am researching my Grand Uncle, Private Patrick McSweeney 10288, who appears on the CWGC as being killed in action on July 10th 1917, whilst serving with the 2nd Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers. He is buried at Coxyde cemetry in Belgium along with a number of other men from the same battalion. I actually went to Kew last week to try and find out a little bit of the actual circumatances leading up to his death and managed to find some interesting stuff from the 2nd battalions war diary for that day. The thing is, the diary entry actualy lists the name and numbers of 7 men killed that day but Patrick Mc Sweeney's name is not shown! I fell certain that he was killed during the large German offensive that took place that day. The fact that all 7 men from the 2nd battalion RMF killed that day are all buried at Coxyde makes me think I may be correct (one of them is actually buried in the grave beside him). Any ideas why Patrick McSweeney's name might not appear in the War diary for that day? Also, are there any Irish archives anywhere that might have a picture of my Grand Uncle? (the family didn't keep any as far as I can tell).

Thank you.

Kevin Mc Sweeney

Hello Kevin,

Just to let you know that your Grandfather will also be included in the City and County of Cork Book of Honour which is currently being compiled - you can check my post on this 'Cork Soldiers' to see the details.

I will check if my project team has a photograph of him.

With regard to your queary regarding the history of the 2nd Battalion RMF there are three books you shgould look for:

The History of the Royal Munster Fusiliers by Capt S. McCance.

The 2nd Munsters in France by Col. H. S. Jervis (available here in Cork)

The Munsters at Etreaux, Festubert, and Rue de Bois by Mrs Victor Rickard

Best Wishes,

Gerry

[kmcs]

Gerry,

Thanks so much for that information. Apologies for not getting back to you sooner but I have been away for a few days and what with Christmas fast approaching. Well anyway, it was great to see your posting and it is really good to know that my Grand Uncle's name may be recorded the City and County of Cork Book of Honour. I haven't checked your 'Cork Soldiers' posting just yet but will do so just as soon as I have finished this reply. As far as I can tell nobody in my family seems to have any pictures of my Grand Uncle, which is a real shame. If you are by any chance able to source a photo please do let me know and I will arrange with you a way of obtaining a copy.

I would certainly love to find out some more about the 2nd Munsters and the book 'The 2nd Munsters in France by Col. H. S. Jervis' sounds an ideal starting point. Are you able to tell me where in Cork I could purchase it from?

Thanks again Gerry for getting back to me. I hope to hear from you again soon.

Regards

Kevin

[Gerry White]

Gerry,

Thanks so much for that information. Apologies for not getting back to you sooner but I have been away for a few days and what with Christmas fast approaching. Well anyway, it was great to see your posting and it is really good to know that my Grand Uncle's name may be recorded the City and County of Cork Book of Honour. I haven't checked your 'Cork Soldiers' posting just yet but will do so just as soon as I have finished this reply. As far as I can tell nobody in my family seems to have any pictures of my Grand Uncle, which is a real shame. If you are by any chance able to source a photo please do let me know and I will arrange with you a way of obtaining a copy.

I would certainly love to find out some more about the 2nd Munsters and the book 'The 2nd Munsters in France by Col. H. S. Jervis' sounds an ideal starting point. Are you able to tell me where in Cork I could purchase it from?

Thanks again Gerry for getting back to me. I hope to hear from you again soon.

Regards

Kevin

Hi Again Kevin,

Unfortunately there wasn't a photograph of your Grand-Uncle published in the Cork local newspapers at the time of his death. The book you mentioned can be obtained from Schull Books - a visit to thier website will show you how the book can be ordered. It is very informative and is a great read. The book written by Mrs Rickard can be ordered from Naval and Military Press - again, check out their website.

Gerry

[kmcs]

Hello Gerry,

Shame that their appears to be no picture available of my Grand Uncle but thanks very much for looking. In the mean time I will go onto the Schull website and order the book you recommended- I am sure it will give me some really useful background information. Good luck with the City and County of Cork Book of Honour, I am looking forward to having a look at it once it is complete. If you do by any chance come across any more information re: Patrick McSweeney please do let me know.

regards

kevin

[kmcs]

Just a thought, but is it possible to find out which company within a battalion a soldier belonged too? Where would this information be held (if at all) and how easy would it be to locate? Any suggestions?

Regards

Kevin

[staunton]

Just a thought, but is it possible to find out which company within a battalion a soldier belonged too? Where would this information be held (if at all) and how easy would it be to locate? Any suggestions?

Regards

Kevin

Company is a difficult one rarely given

Medal Roll info shows he first entered service 25th September 1915 as a replacement to 6th Bn during its final days at Suvla.

BW & VM Roll also has service with 2nd and 1st Bns after 6th.

Serial number is that of a regular soldier in 10,000 range - wartime RMF enlistments did not use many of these (usually went to Service or Special Reserve Bns)

[shelagh barry]

From SDGW (Soldiers Died in the Great War) also gives the same date of death.

Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919

Name: Patrick MCSWEENEY

Regiment, Corps etc.: Royal Munster Fusiliers

Battalion etc.: 2nd Battalion.

4.8.14 Malplaquet Barracks, Aldershot: 1st (Guards) Bde. 1st Div. 14.8.14 landed at Havre. 14.9.14 to Army Troops. 9.11.14 to 3rd Bde. 1st Div. 30.5.16 absorbed 7 officers and 140 men from the disbanded 9th Bn. 3.2.18 to 48th Bde. 16th Div. 19.4.18 reduced to training cadre and surplus personnel to 1st Bn. 31.5.18 to 94th Bde. 31st Div. 6.6.18 reconstituted with drafts from the disbanded 6th Bn. 16.6.18 to L. of C. 15.7.18 to 150th Bde. 50th Div. at Martin Eglise. 11.11.18 150th Bde. 50th Div. France; Sars Poteries, N.E. of Avesnes.

Last name: Mcsweeney

First name(s): Patrick

Initials: P

Birthplace: Macroom, Co. Cork

Enlisted: Limerick

Residence: Macroom

Rank: PRIVATE

Number: 10288

Date died: 10 July 1917

How died: Killed in action

Theatre of war: France & Flanders

Ellie

Hi kevin , I know is a while since you made your search but I am interested if you managed to discover more information and if so how? My grandfather was in 2nd battalion RMF and must have enrolled around the same time as your Uncle. My grandfathers number was 10235 and he also enrolled in Limerick . His name Michael Barry . Any info or advice would be very welcome. thanks shelagh

From SDGW (Soldiers Died in the Great War) also gives the same date of death.

Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919

Name: Patrick MCSWEENEY

Regiment, Corps etc.: Royal Munster Fusiliers

Battalion etc.: 2nd Battalion.

4.8.14 Malplaquet Barracks, Aldershot: 1st (Guards) Bde. 1st Div. 14.8.14 landed at Havre. 14.9.14 to Army Troops. 9.11.14 to 3rd Bde. 1st Div. 30.5.16 absorbed 7 officers and 140 men from the disbanded 9th Bn. 3.2.18 to 48th Bde. 16th Div. 19.4.18 reduced to training cadre and surplus personnel to 1st Bn. 31.5.18 to 94th Bde. 31st Div. 6.6.18 reconstituted with drafts from the disbanded 6th Bn. 16.6.18 to L. of C. 15.7.18 to 150th Bde. 50th Div. at Martin Eglise. 11.11.18 150th Bde. 50th Div. France; Sars Poteries, N.E. of Avesnes.

Last name: Mcsweeney

First name(s): Patrick

Initials: P

Birthplace: Macroom, Co. Cork

Enlisted: Limerick

Residence: Macroom

Rank: PRIVATE

Number: 10288

Date died: 10 July 1917

How died: Killed in action

Theatre of war: France & Flanders

Ellie

Hi kevin , I know is a while since you made your search but I am interested if you managed to discover more information and if so how? My grandfather was in 2nd battalion RMF and must have enrolled around the same time as your Uncle. My grandfathers number was 10235 and he also enrolled in Limerick . His name Michael Barry . Any info or advice would be very welcome. thanks shelagh