Guest Hill 60 Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 I have just seen a photograph on another website which purports to show a Belgian youth who has been killed whilst trying to cross an electric fence between Belgium and the Netherlands, the fence was supposed to have been put in place by the Germans. I have never heard of this before, I'm not saying it wasn't there it's just I've never seen it in the books I've read on WWI. My questions are: 1. When was this fence put up? 2. How far did it go? 3. Was this sort of technology used on the front-line? With regards to question 3; if it wasn't used, why not? I can understand the problems of generating the power and keeping the wires connected in the face of shell-fire etc, was there any other reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 Lee. A good article on the subject can be found on following: http://www.geocities.com/~worldwar1/electric01.html[/html Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 The electric fence was built along the whole Belgian-Dutch border, it is my understanding it was built pretty soon, end 1914, beginning 1915. I've got pictures from units that were guarding the Dutch border early 1915 and the fence was there already. I don't suppose it was used in the front-line, because it was very complicated to build and electricity lines could be destroyed easily by artillery fire. Besides, the Germans were short of coal etc to produce electricity. Although, perhaps on quiet parts of the front? Allthough I've never read about this. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 Jacky, Jan - Thanks very much for the info. I've had a look on the website suggested and have found the very same Belgian youth. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 This fence is mentioned in the book "The Prisoners 1914-18" by Robert Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 Many thanks Croonaert. So, another book I'll have to get from the library!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 You can also have a look at http://www.xs4all.nl/~aur/Netherlands/wire.htm Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Orfei Posted 7 February , 2003 Share Posted 7 February , 2003 Lee, as I was checking web- sites to find more about the Belgian youth, who was electrocuted, while trying to escape to the Netherlands during the first World War. I came upon a this Web Site. WWW.decx.net/greatwar/ children. It does include information about this youth, and a photograph after his demise. However, the web site really deals with children from many nations who became soldiers( UK and Germany ) Most of the pictures are from the World War time line. I know that it is off the original topic but I found it deeply moving. I think some members would find the site very intriguing. I wait your review(and others) of this site. Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 8 February , 2003 Share Posted 8 February , 2003 To all those who left postings on my question - Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 14 July , 2004 Share Posted 14 July , 2004 I thought the fence was built by the Dutch gov't... which may be addressed in one of the links reference. I also thought the little enclave of Baarle-Nassau was completely surrounded as well. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 14 July , 2004 Share Posted 14 July , 2004 There is a museum of this fence. Have a look on the WFA website under the list of places to go put there by the Luxembourg branch (me), to get the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 14 July , 2004 Share Posted 14 July , 2004 Hello Andy, No we didn't. The Germans did. Being known for our reluctance to spend money the electricity billl alone would have been enough reason not to. Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 14 July , 2004 Share Posted 14 July , 2004 Lee, wasn't the electric wire put there by the Germans not to keep the British out but the Belgians in? Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsturm Posted 14 July , 2004 Share Posted 14 July , 2004 There`s an interesting article in this great site called "The Great War in a Different Light": "Irons Curtains of the First Kind". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zijde26 Posted 14 July , 2004 Share Posted 14 July , 2004 Prof. A. Vanneste wrote an article (140 pages) on this item, the electric fence, the whole border between The Netherlands and Belgium. The article comprises also lots of photos of this fence. Gilbert Deraedt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLI Posted 14 July , 2004 Share Posted 14 July , 2004 I couldn't access the site even when I removed rogue space after forward slash. WWW.decx.net/greatwar/ children I shall try again Anthony Farrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 14 July , 2004 Share Posted 14 July , 2004 Landsturm... Thanks for the link, very interesting pictures. I don't understand the Baarle-Duc issue though. If the fence was built by the Germans, and that appears to be the case, how was the tiny enclave surrounded? It would seem the only was is for the Germans to cross Dutch territory, which never happened. One of the pictures on the link is a German killing a father in Baarle-Duc. Perhas its justa detail I am trying to get straight in my mind. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 14 July , 2004 Share Posted 14 July , 2004 one thing was for sure: the Belgian who went from Belgium to England to France and then fought in the trenches were brave men. That because: - Surviving the Ulhan patrols along the fence - Surviving the high voltage fence -Surviving the marechaussee or not beeing arrested and putted in a Dutch concentration camp - Surviving the boat trip to England - Surviving the trip to France - Surviving the trenches Who said we were cowards? Going from Belgium to Holland was dangerous buisiness for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zijde26 Posted 16 July , 2004 Share Posted 16 July , 2004 The enclave 'Baarle Hertog ' was not occupied during ww1 by the German Army. The Dutch themselves built a barrier around both enclaves, Baarle-Hertog and Baarle-Nassau, in order to keep their country neutral. Gilbert Deraedt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Dutch concentration camp 'Dutch Interment camp' Kritstof. Might look like a slight change, but ever so important distinction in perception Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 I am sorry to say Marco. I have many nice Dutch friends. But some camps were certainly not so much better than the British Boer war concentration camps. There are witness stories of starving Belgians and other "bad" things, like no medical help. Beeing there was no fun at all. Some Belgians say that even German POW camps were better than some Dutch camps. Don't forget that a lot of Dutch were German minded those days, certianly in the east. But i don't know if that can be a reason. Anyhow it is history now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Kristof, History is what we are here for. The fact that I am Dutch and you apperently have a lot of Dutch friends and you are Belgian has nothing to do with you being wrong: But some camps were certainly not so much better than the British Boer war concentration camps The fact all Belgians returned and a lot of Boer's didn't proves you are wrong. Add to that that in the Boer war women and childeren underwent the same faith as the men while in WW1 Holland wives and childeren were allowed to come over from Belgium and live FREE in Holland where they liked is also a rather large difference, don't you think? Do you think the Boer's put up memorials to thank the British for 'housing' them? The Belgians did for the Dutch. I kindly suggest you do a bit more reading like Roodt, E. de OORLOGSGASTEN – VLUCHTELINGEN EN KRIJGSGEVANGENEN IN NEDERLAND TIJDENS DE EERSTE WERELDOORLOG. 2000, 464 pages, 26x18 cm., Europese Bibliotheek before you make any more comments that are incorrect and can be considered highly offensive. Food was scarce at the end of the war and not only the refugees and internees had hunger. This was a big reason b.t.w. why the early enthousiasm for taking care of the refugees and internees was almost gone at the end of the war: more mouths to feed. Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Marco, sad you are looking only to the good site. One book is not the proof of reallity. I knew a veteran who was imprissoned. He told me personaly what he have seen and experienced. No fun at all. And also quote myself if i say SOME camps. If this history is hihgly offensive, why talking about WW1 then? Maybe the Germans find this forum also highly offensive? Or the Brits because we talked about the Boer war? May we not mention the terror in Belgian Congo? I have no problem with it, it is the true history. I hope that you are open to different views and not stiffheaded. It is history. Not much historians will say their country made some mistakes... i know the book, written by a dutch woman, with a Dutch view ofcourse... http://www.historischhuis.nl/recensies/recensie65.html And the woman free? certainly not everywhere, they sometimes were obligated to stay in the place they were "given", that is not freedom to me: From a Dutch website: http://www.wereldoorlog1418.nl/vluchteling...itairen-vlucht/ But look at this as an example: http://www.iisg.nl/collections/refugees/belgiannl.html In English: http://www.iisg.nl/collections/refugees/belgian.html With no meaning to offend you, just to let you be critical about history and who that tells it. greets, kristof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Kristof, Of course history isn’t black and white, it’s all sorts of grey. But let’s get back to the original discussion: if you in 2004 (with knowledge of Nazi-Germany) deliberately (I noted the difference between Dutch CONCENTRATION camps and German POW camps) use the word concentration camp for Dutch internee camps (even 'bad' ones) then the only worthy reply would be one that falls outside forum rules. I am tempted, but won’t go there on this occasion. Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 July , 2004 Share Posted 17 July , 2004 Marco, the word concentration camp wasn't so bad like the German camps BEFORE WW2. A concentration camp PRE WW2 was a place were people were concertrated on a small place. Post WW2 it was to the people equal to extermination and terror. I agree on the fact that nowerdays it sound more terrible. But then it was the common name for internee camps. By the way the word camp was also changed during the war to 'vluchtelingsoord'= refugee resort. Hearby my apologies if this was offensive. And i am glad you don't see it black and white. I am sure that discussing these items can learn us new items, views, facts? cheers, kristof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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