Anyone Explain This Photograph?

[James H]

This pic appears on the cover of a recent book by Charles Messenger about Amiens. It is clearly a fake - the supposed German uniforms are no such thing but a puzzling assortment of all sorts of stuff, and the Allied soldier is, if you look closely, floating in mid-air. It would appear to be a dreadful cut & paste.

It has proved to be beyond the wisdom of us at Landships. Someone has pointed out that the Allied soldier looks like a shot from a film, and it looks very familiar but I can't place it.

Can anyone throw any light?

[marina]

They look like models. See the ones on thwe MGWAT thread - very similar.

Marina

[Tom Morgan]

Charles Messenger himself might not have had any input as far as the cover illustration is concerned, but he might be able to tell you something about the design. He's a forum member so you could send him a message and ask him.

Tom

[keithfazzani]

Yes my first impression is photographs of models - and that they are then cut and paste on to an "old" background. Not a very convincing picture at all.

[Gunner Bailey]

Is it from Sergeant York? I also agree about the models. The helmets look like kitchen pots!

Looks like a horrid piece of work.

Gunner Bailey

[marina]

The one on MGWAT is much better!

[James H]

Thanks to all for suggestions and help. The cover was designed by a company called Jetdesigns, who have a website but their email doesn't seem to work. They say the pic is copyright Corbis, an image shop that has hundreds of Great War pics, but I can't find it there. I shall try asking Charles, who, as you say, might not be aware of this pic's shortcomings.

Could someone please direct me to the MGWAT thread?

[RobL]

The Tommy looks more like someone from vietnam - looks like a tight fitting shirt and a white t shirt underneath

[marina]

Thanks to all for suggestions and help. The cover was designed by a company called Jetdesigns, who have a website but their email doesn't seem to work. They say the pic is copyright Corbis, an image shop that has hundreds of Great War pics, but I can't find it there. I shall try asking Charles, who, as you say, might not be aware of this pic's shortcomings.

Could someone please direct me to the MGWAT thread?

There you go, James:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...p;#entry1045499

Marina

[Gunboat]

The non german "figure" looks more like a second world war US Marine before the introduction of the pudding bowl helmet and I agree looks like a grab from a film.

and the german helmets look medieval?

[centurion]

Some very poor cut and paste work (prossibly with real scissors and real paste) - the German on the extreme right has had the front of his helmet and his face trimmed off (he's als clearly a model [plastic] as his helmet strap has been left pink and not painted)

[RedCoat]

Hi guys,

The chap in green looks like he is holding a Colt?.....also the German headgear looks like the M16 Turkish pattern....sort issued to...turkish troops...(i believe in small numbers)

Donnie

[James H]

Hi guys,

the German headgear looks like the M16 Turkish pattern....sort issued to...turkish troops...(i believe in small numbers)

Donnie

One or two look like the "Ottoman", but that model was never actually sent to Turkey and doesn't appear to have been issued until after the War. Some of the other helmets look like German WWII para helmets, and the bloke with the disturbing beetle brows looks like an Arditi. Some of the "Germans" appear to be wearing a full pack with bedroll, which is highly unlikely. In fact, the whole scene is highly implausible. The sandbags look very neat and clean, as well.

Is this silly, or, if they are models, could they be in some way connected with these Timpo WWII Germans?

http://www.die-cast-toys.com/plastic-soldi...ets/germans.jpg

http://www.die-cast-toys.com/plastic-soldi...ts/germans1.jpg

http://www.die-cast-toys.com/plastic-soldi...searchlight.jpg

[Droocoo]

you can see how the background is in black and white, and how the foreground is in colour. This is probably a diarama with a photograph backing for reality.

[chris mccarthy]

Dear, oh dear, oh dear! May be we could start a worst ever picture on jacket cover competition?

[James H]

After considerable digging, and with the kind help of an inspired bit of observation from another enthusiast, I can reveal the startling truth.

The "Germans" in this pic appear to be . . . . Chinese. Almost certainly late 30s - WWII. I had no idea, but there was enormous trade and economic cooperation between The Third Reich and Nationalist China. It also included military development, and Germany trained and equipped a large part of the Nationalist Army. It all came to an end when Germany switched her allegiance to Japan.

Info here:

http://www.hardcorpsmodels.com/index.php?o...7&Itemid=28

http://www.swallow.com.tw/military/chinese.htm#c002

http://www.swallow.com.tw/military/images/...er02/g0201b.jpg

So not Amiens 1918, but China 1936-ish. Close.

Still can't work out the origins of the pic. Why are the troops surrendering? Is it a pic of manoeuvres? A Japanese propaganda pic. I think the "Allied" soldier is definitely a red herring.

[charlesmessenger]

James

Could be Chinese. Chiang Kai-shek certainly had German military advisors who helped him force Mao Zedong and the Communists to embark on their Long March in 1935. As I PM'd you previously, I had nothing to do with the design of the jacket. I saw it before publication, but did not subject it to the microscope. I was merely content that the jacket gave a flavour of what the book is about.

Charles M

[centurion]

James

Could be Chinese.

Or even Irish, the Free State Army before WW2 adopted a form of Stalhelm. Howeve I suspect that any real attempt to analyse this frankly bodged picture is a total waste of time as its merely a very poor montage of various cut up photos from different periods and the German soldiers could be almost anything including extras from some sub B very low budget movie. The British soldier (if that is what he is) is clearly from a different photograph as he floats above the ground and the tank in the background is on yet a different photo. A monumental waste of time and bandwidth (why am I posting this ?).

[4thGordons]

Dear, oh dear, oh dear! May be we could start a worst ever picture on jacket cover competition?

If DVD covers are allowed I have one: HAVE A LOOK AT THIS

I have not seen it!

Chris

[keithmroberts]

Now that is indeed a classic. I'm almost tempted to leave a review.

Keith

[James H]

Or even Irish, the Free State Army before WW2 adopted a form of Stalhelm. Howeve I suspect that any real attempt to analyse this frankly bodged picture is a total waste of time as its merely a very poor montage of various cut up photos from different periods and the German soldiers could be almost anything including extras from some sub B very low budget movie. The British soldier (if that is what he is) is clearly from a different photograph as he floats above the ground and the tank in the background is on yet a different photo. A monumental waste of time and bandwidth (why am I posting this ?).

That would be the M27 steel helmet, a carbon copy (or, rather, a low-carbon copy) of the German version, made in the UK by Vickers. The ones in the pic don't look like it, in my view.

Yes, the pic could be many things. That was really the point of posting it. I think it was stated not long ago, with powerful evidence in support, that the "Germans" were plastic models. Anyway, it's my time to waste. There is no obligation to become involved.

Charles M - please don't take offence. No microscope was involved; it looked fishy straight away. What surprised me is that the design company make a big thing on their website about specialising in military books, so it was all the more puzzling that they fell for this picture.

BTW, the GWF panto is auditioning for "Grumpy". Anyone interested?