Palestine, 19 Sept 1918

[michaeldr]

In order to assist ‘Londons’ in the preparations for their forthcoming visit to Ramleh CWGC cemetery, I would like to be able to identify the modern-day location of “Sivri Wood or Sivri Tepe or Sivri Oghlu.”

Can someone please check their maps of this campaign and give me any references for the above with respect to known locations such as Kefr Kasim, Wadi Qana or Mejdel Yaba.

Thanks in anticipation of assistance

Regards

Michael D.R.

[JulianB]

I suspect that these Turkish names will not have been in use for long. In topographical terms I'm not sure what Sivri might mean but the word, adjective, means 'pointed, tapering, tall and thin' and Tepe is certainly the Turkish equivalent of Tell. So I guess you may be looking for 'hilltops'

Have you tried the PEF for maps, they have an extensive collection, and of photogra[phs.

Julian

[Guest Pete Wood]

Now I've read your question properly, I think I can help.

The actions you refer to were all around Mulebbis (I believe it is now known as Omlebish).

I will post a map I have of Mulebbis which shows Sivre Tepe and kefr Kasim - so you should be okay. It is about 7 miles north east of Jaffa.

I have a high resolution copy, if you want it.

[michaeldr]

Julian and Pete,

Thanks for your ideas and Pete, many thanks for the map which is most helpful.

There is a hill [spot height 157 metres] about half way between Kefr Kasim and Kefr Barah which seems to tie in with the above map and most likely to be Sivri Tepe

I will bring this to Lee’s attention

Thanks again for your assistance

Michael D.R.

[ozgur]

Michael,

Sivri means "pointed" here. Tepe is Hill. so you should look for a pointed hill around this area

But I am sure Turkish name is not used today.

[Guest Pete Wood]

The little wood just to the west of Crown Hill, in the centre of your map, is Sivri Wood.

[michaeldr]

Robert,

Many thanks for the map showing the line of the advance of the 10/Londons

Lee should find this very useful

It also serves to illustrate how difficult a job it can be to pin-point somewhere, when even in the brief course of the campaign, the names change from map to map; Sivri Tepe seems to have become Crown Hill

Thanks again everyone

Michael D.R.

[Guest Pete Wood]

The map I gave you, is one drawn in 1918 and issued to officers of 54 Division, before the attack.

Robert's map is a later, historical document, with much more detail - and much more accurate, I should think. It will be interesting to see, how many of the features Lee is able to recognise, today, when he visits.

Robert, please can you give the source of your map.

[londons]

Dear Michael and All Who Have Helped,

Thank you all very much indeed. The effort and help you have given us is just incredible. I will attempt to take some pictures of the area (as close as I can get) and post them when I return. The route showing the 10th Londons is great. The war diary suggests that my ggrandfather was probably killed by 11:00am on the 19th September 1918. Tragic that the force was comparatively unopposed after Megiddo. He was a man who could speak 5 foreign languages and was in poor health serving the 1st RWR Gn Bn and Labour Corps in Egypt prior to the 10th Londons but the army put him in the Infantry !!

In my haste prior to travelling on Saturday a researcher has managed to find me a 54th Div map of the area dated 19th sept 1918 !!! Can you believe my luck. The type is bad but it shows clearly Crown Hill and Crown Wood to the NE and N respectively of Kefr Kasim. However, it looks like Sivri Tepe is shown slightly to the NW of Kefr Kasim !!! Could this be possible ?

The war diaries seem to indicate that he died just North of Kefr Kasim around Sivri Wood and Sivri Tepe where they were being fired on.

Thanks again for all of your help with this.

Kind regards,

Lee

[Robert Dunlop]

Robert, please can you give the source of your map.

The map is entitled 'Sharon and Nablus 19th-21st September, 1918' and it is taken from the Official History of the Great War - Military Operations: Other Theatres 1914-1918: Maps CD, published by Naval and Military Press.

[michaeldr]

Well done the ‘Pals’ team

Thanks for all your help in getting Londons and his mom to the correct place

See Lee’s post of 16 March 21:12 hrs here

Best Regards

Michael D.R.

[londons]

Hi Everyone,

thanks again to you all for your excellent help with identifying Crown Hill and Sivri Tepe before my trip to Israel. Your very precise and accurate information meant we could relay this to our guide and beyond our wildest expectations he was able to take us there. Please find a couple of images to the North East of Kefar Kasim, now Kefr Quesem showing the area of Crown Hill, Sivri Tepe and where the wooded area was (Sivri Wood). The feeling of standing there looking down onto that track where my ggrandfather would most likely have been killed on 19th September 1918 was incredibly moving. We were stood on high ground where the enemy lay in wait with heavy calibre machine guns looking across to more high ground where more enemy lay in wait. From divisional maps, my guide and the fact that since 1918 Kasim has expanded to meet the hill, I know that the 1/10th Londons were in this area between 9:00am and 11:00am on 19/9/1918. At that time the infantry were sitting targets in an ambush and many were sacrificed by storming these enemy positions to protect the rest of the brigade.

I have quite a few pictures that when put together make a nice panaoramic view of this area and terrain. If any of you would like them, please email me offline and I'll be delighted to send you a set. I'll shortly post a new topic where I'll put this offer on a wider availability.

Once again, many thanks to you all.

Kindest,

Lee

[londons]

and another further to the north east of Kasim.