Scottish tunic

[emmanuel bril]

just brought scottish grouping , and i never seen this type of blue tunic ( what is this ? and when this tunic are used ? ), and also one detail of the ribbons bars both at right what' is this ?

the glengarry cap is good and untouched and he look's like officer badge or private, if somebody is specialize to the scottish army ..thank you before

cheers

toplexil

[dycer]

Toplexi,

I'll let the real experts decipher this but a couple of thoughts.

Could you attach a separate photo of the cap badge so we can confirm regiment.

I may be wrong but the last ribbon looks very much like a Police Exemplary Service Medal.

George

[Graham Stewart]

It's a nice and I would say rare, 'blue doublet', being the Scottish equivalent of 'blue patrols' as used by other elements of of the Army. Other regiments wore a blue jacket with normal skirt, but in this version you see the traditional cut-away skirt, which would help display the sporran. I believe 'blues' were improved over the years and this could be a pattern seen around 1937 if my memory is correct hence the lining. Later patterns for other regiments would display coloured piping on the shoulder straps.

Later Scottish units would adopt a No.1 dress doublet in a dark bottle green to replace both scarlet and blue worn previously.

Hopefully Frogsmile or Grumpy will confirm or deny my observations.

[Krithia]

I would say mid-late 1920's, obviously post war with the medal ribbons. Looks nice, a good find. Is that a kilt cover/apron behind?

[Black Watch]

Seaforths badge I think

Neil

[Tom A McCluskey]

Toplexil,

Its a Blue Patrol jacket. Sometimes worn by Highland Regiments for walking out. It was not a full dress jacket. The HLI variant has box pleats down the back. If you have a look at Ian Robertson's thread, you can see some of the 1st Bn The Black Watch at Oudenarde Barrack in Aldershot wearing the jacket with Black Watch tartan trews:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...p;hl=tom+wilkie

Up till recently, they were still worn (duty Sgts, Friday Dress, etc.). I think the HLI pattern may be the one adopted by the new regiment (Royal Regiment of Scotland).

Aye

Tom McC

[SANDY_LEISHMAN]

Toplexil,

Its a Blue Patrol jacket. Sometimes worn by Highland Regiments for walking out. It was not a full dress jacket. The HLI variant has box pleats down the back. If you have a look at Ian Robertson's thread, you can see some of the 1st Bn The Black Watch at Oudenarde Barrack in Aldershot wearing the jacket with Black Watch tartan trews:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...p;hl=tom+wilkie

Up till recently, they were still worn (duty Sgts, Friday Dress, etc.). I think the HLI pattern may be the one adopted by the new regiment (Royal Regiment of Scotland).

Aye

Tom McC

Correct Tom

[auchonvillerssomme]

The Police LSGC medal was instituted in June 1951.

Mick

[BigT]

Seaforth's definitely

[FROGSMILE]

Correct Tom

The HLI pattern has indeed been adopted by the Royal Regt of Scotland. The uniform of which this jacket/tunic is part is known to other, non-Scottish regts as No 1 Dress Blues, or Blue Patrols. It is a style of uniform with a quite long history and details can be found in the Search facility if you are interested in finding out more.

[Graham Stewart]

The HLI pattern has indeed been adopted by the Royal Regt of Scotland. The uniform of which this jacket/tunic is part is known to other, non-Scottish regts as No 1 Dress Blues, or Blue Patrols. It is a style of uniform with a quite long history and details can be found in the Search facility if you are interessted in finding out more.

Bob,

On a closer look would you reckon this is the pattern worn in the 1930's? I have the later 1950's pattern with coloured piping on the shoulder strap and although described as No.1 Dress or 'Coronation' blues the colour is almost black to naked eye. I have a distinct feeling that this jacket is the much earlier 30's pattern of 'blues', due to the fact it has a lining, which is rare in earlier patterns of jacket worn at the turn of the century.

Plus I think the skirt pockets on the 50's pattern are squared off and not scalloped as in this case.

[FROGSMILE]

Bob,

On a closer look would you reckon this is the pattern worn in the 1930's? I have the later 1950's pattern with coloured piping on the shoulder strap and although described as No.1 Dress or 'Coronation' blues the colour is almost black to naked eye. I have a distinct feeling that this jacket is the much earlier 30's pattern of 'blues', due to the fact it has a lining, which is rare in earlier patterns of jacket worn at the turn of the century.

Plus I think the skirt pockets on the 50's pattern are squared off and not scalloped as in this case.

Hi Graham, good to see you post. Yes I think it is the pattern issued for George VI Coronation. The key ID factors are as you describe. Also to start with I believe collar badges were not always worn and it was common for the self fabric belt to be used when off parade.

[Muerrisch]

Colour sergeant instructor in musketry ...... only one in a Home service battalion. I concur about basic remarks on Jacket, except that I have always been dubious about term 'blue patrols' as applied to non-officer clothing. I have never seen an official reference as such to the name.

Perhaps the left [as worn] ribbon was a coronation or jubilee one .... they all look a bit similar. And is not the ribbon next to it the 1939 45 Defence medal?

[FROGSMILE]

Colour sergeant instructor in musketry ...... only one in a Home service battalion. I concur about basic remarks on Jacket, except that I have always been dubious about term 'blue patrols' as applied to non-officer clothing. I have never seen an official reference as such to the name.

Perhaps the left [as worn] ribbon was a coronation or jubilee one .... they all look a bit similar. And is not the ribbon next to it the 1939 45 Defence medal?

I agree that Blue Patrols refers more accurately to officers' uniform and was originally a different style of dress altogether. Unfortunately it has been picked up as a kind of Lingua Franca within the Army, particularly within Scottish Regts. More properly it is simply No 1 Dress, although that term too has only existed since approx the 1960s when Nos 1 to No 10 dress were introduced to try and bring some 'order' to the disparate range of uniforms then in existence.

[Muerrisch]

Thank you. Does 1 to 10 include all hot weather clothing, or did that go on and on?

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you. Does 1 to 10 include all hot weather clothing, or did that go on and on?

From memory there are 2 specifically hot weather parade uniforms ('Whites' or No 3 Dress) and a Stone coloured (as opposed to Khaki) parade uniform, the number of which I forget (No 7 or No 8 maybe but, I am not positive). No 10 is Mess Kit. There was also combat dress which has/had various types as a sub-title, e.g. 'temperate', but the number did not change.

[Tom A McCluskey]

Toplexil,

Is the jacket cotton? If it is, it is probably an overseas Blue Patrol jacket with a silk lining...either that, or the worsted wool has worn pretty thin.

Aye

Tom McC

[dycer]

Perhaps the left [as worn] ribbon was a coronation or jubilee one .... they all look a bit similar. And is not the ribbon next to it the 1939 45 Defence medal?

Grumpy,

The only reason I suggest the Police Medal.

My Father received the Medal pre-1953 Coronation(King George VI)

His order of Wearing-39/45 Defence,Queen's Coronation and Police Long Service.

George

[Graham Stewart]

I forgot to mention that the jacket has another feature not found on the 50's pattern and that the cuff has a pointed seam(?) woven into it, whereas the 50's cuff is plain.

When I get home I'll photo my 50's jacket and post it to illustrate the differences.

Does the jacket here have any markings or labels on the interior?

[FROGSMILE]

I forgot to mention that the jacket has another feature not found on the 50's pattern and that the cuff has a pointed seam(?) woven into it, whereas the 50's cuff is plain.

When I get home I'll photo my 50's jacket and post it to illustrate the differences.

Does the jacket here have any markings or labels on the interior?

From memory only I think that the pointed style of cuff was known as a Prussian Cuff and was adopted by the British Army after the Franco-Prussian War. The other style with a flap (often scalloped) and buttons ,as is still worn by the Guards, is a French Cuff.

[auchonvillerssomme]

How can you mistake that last one for a Coronation or Jubilee medal ribbon? looks nothing like a coronation or jubilee ribbon. There isn't even one similar. Its a Police LSGC. So the Jacket was worn in the 50's even if it wasn't made in the 50's.

Mick

[Muerrisch]

At my age I can mistake anything for anything!

Yes, it is the same ribbon as my daughter's, for Police Exemplary Service [not just 'good conduct'], but she also has Jubilee medal and I got confused.