danikaashley Posted 21 October , 2008 Share Posted 21 October , 2008 I'm trying to find military records or any details of my GreatGrandfather and any records of his family but am finding it exremely difficult to make any pieces come together so have been pointed in the direction of this forum! I have one photograph of him, his marriage certificate, and the fact that my Grandad (now deceased) said his Father was originally from Canada. My Great Uncle has on different occasions said America and Canada but I think most people believe it was Canada! *Details from marriage cert: 11/09/1920 St. Joseph's RC Church, Bolton, Lancashire Arthur Claude Davies aged 25 yrs Laborer, Father: Henry Davies (deceased) Laborer Mary Renecar 25 yrs born Bolton, Lancashire. *Details obtained from photograph: Arthur served in the King's Regiment Liverpool, either 7th or 9th batallions (figured out by his cap badge). I am yet to find any of his actual military records. I have searched National Archives and discounted some due to wrong second name, and discounted a few more via checking the CWGC listed deaths. A kind man recently helped me discount a few more by telling me their batallion. I now have the following list: * Medal card of Davies, Arthur Corps: Liverpool Regiment Regiment No: 74407 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/5 * Medal card of Davies, Arthur Corps: Liverpool Regiment Regiment No: 60051 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/5 * Medal card of Davies, Arthur Corps: Liverpool Regiment Regiment No: 6390 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/5 * Medal card of Davies, Arthur Corps: Royal Lancaster Regiment Regiment No: 32551 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/5 I recently found another record on Ancestry which wasn't on National Archives. It also links him to Lancashire where he married. Is there any reason why a record would be on Ancestry but not show on my search on National Archives?? Name:Arthur DaviesRegiment or Corps:Royal Lancashire Regiment, South Lancashire Regiment, 51/TR Bn, Liverpool Regiment, Royal Engineers Regimental number:32551, 27477, 12286, 87647, 286387 Arthur had 3 children: Arthur c1922, Stanislaus 1925, Theresa c1927 all born in Bolton. He died in Bolton c1965 of stomach cancer. If anybody could offer any help or advise on how to further narrow down my list or how to trace Arthur, his father Henry, or anyone connected to them it would be very greatly appreciated. Many Thanks Danika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 21 October , 2008 Share Posted 21 October , 2008 Have you tried the absent voters list? That might help narrow it down if you know where he lived prior to enlisting. Also, local newspapers might carry something about him, but it would be a needle in a haystack job unless someone has done the search already. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danikaashley Posted 21 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2008 Have you tried the absent voters list? That might help narrow it down if you know where he lived prior to enlisting. Also, local newspapers might carry something about him, but it would be a needle in a haystack job unless someone has done the search already. Ken Hi Ken, Where might I find the absent voters list? I've searched Liverpool newspapers on Ancestry without much luck but am yet to search any others. Thankk Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 22 October , 2008 Share Posted 22 October , 2008 Danika, I can see why you thought he was 7th or 9th Bn but the 7th Bn gave up it's all white metal badgfe for the duration of the war and it turns out to be a fallacy that the 9th Bn had WM badges too. I have found over the years that it is very difficult to see a Kings bi-metal badge with any sort of lighting on it - as yours is. The badge looks quite chunky which might point to being pre war (it looks as though the tail is missing) but if the hind legs are fused together I wouyld say it is from 1915 or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 22 October , 2008 Share Posted 22 October , 2008 It looks more like the post-1922 version of the badge to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 22 October , 2008 Share Posted 22 October , 2008 As far as I know, there was no change of pattern in 1922. There was 4362A/1896 then 10042/1926. Careful study has distinguished various 'types' of these 'patterns', particuarly the first one. The badge illustrated is 4362A and certainly not 10042, and I think it is a 1st WW type of 4362A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 22 October , 2008 Share Posted 22 October , 2008 In that case I stand corrected. It looks like the much later badge as seen with the different font for the word "KING'S" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danikaashley Posted 24 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2008 I've seen this badge on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&item=350110007825 Do you think this is the one in the photograph? The photo of my GGF isn't great and I'd hate to discount the records of the man I'm looking for! I based what I said about the badge and battalions on what somebody else has told me: "but from what I’ve read and seen that cap badge could be the key to at least narrowing down the possible number of battalions of the KLR your Great Grandfather could have served with. There were over 40 battalions of the KLR in existence during WWI with over half “active service battalions”, many had their own distinctive cap badge. Some battalions like the Liverpool Rifles [1/6th & 2/6th], Liverpool Irish [1/8th & 2/8th], Liverpool Scottish [1/10th & 2/10th] and the Pals battalions [17th to 20th] are easily eliminated by the fact their cap badges didn’t feature the white horse of Hanover. In an article online at the Liverpool Museums site it states “If the badge is the standard horse of Hanover over a scroll, but in white metal, then he was in the 7th or 9th Battalions. If it is in black, he was in the 5th Bn”" Is this not correct? Your help is greatly appreciated! Thanks Danika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danikaashley Posted 24 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2008 I've also since found the following record on Ancestry that didn't show on my National archives search: Name:Arthur DaviesRegiment or Corps:Royal Lancashire Regiment, South Lancashire Regiment, 51/TR Bn, Liverpool Regiment, Royal Engineers Regimental number:32551, 27477, 12286, 87647, 286387 This also links him to Lancashire where he later married and resided. Is there any way to find out more about this record? -- modification-- Wait a minute... yes it did - 32551 but shows as Royal Lancaster instead of Royal Lancashire. Which is it more likely to be?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 24 October , 2008 Share Posted 24 October , 2008 Danika, I've already told you the "truth" about the cap badges (post 4). Yes, the one you saw on ebay would have been worn by the 7th Bn up to about early 1915 (and then after the war up to 1926). If I was you I'd want to definitively find which Bn KLR AD served with before splashing out £55. also WHEN he joined the KLR, If he was with 51/TR Bn then he would have worn an ordinary bimetal King's badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danikaashley Posted 24 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2008 Danika, I've already told you the "truth" about the cap badges (post 4). Yes, the one you saw on ebay would have been worn by the 7th Bn up to about early 1915 (and then after the war up to 1926). If I was you I'd want to definitively find which Bn KLR AD served with before splashing out £55. also WHEN he joined the KLR, If he was with 51/TR Bn then he would have worn an ordinary bimetal King's badge. Thanks Julian - my apologies, I'm trying hard but don't really know what I'm talikng about when it comes to anything like this and am getting quite confused . So is the 51/TR Bn linked to KLR? And if you wouldn't mind clarifying for me - am I right to discount those in Liverpool Scottish and Irish? and should I not discount the man in 26th batallion? I was also earlier advised to discount two men on my list in 6th bn and 8th bn as they would have had specific badges, is this correct? Thanks Julian Best Wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 24 October , 2008 Share Posted 24 October , 2008 Actually. I'm wondering about 51 /TR Bn - I think there maybe something about them on the mother site. Anyway the man in the photo was NOT 6th Kings 8th (Irish) Kings 10th (Scottish) Kings or 17th to 20th Kings. Your best bet is to get somewith with Ancestry access to provide you with the info. Yes, it is Royal Lancaster - rather than Lancashire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 24 October , 2008 Share Posted 24 October , 2008 Royal Lancaster: better known to some as 'King's Own', preceding Royal Lancaster. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danikaashley Posted 20 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2008 Actually. I'm wondering about 51 /TR Bn - I think there maybe something about them on the mother site. Anyway the man in the photo was NOT 6th Kings 8th (Irish) Kings 10th (Scottish) Kings or 17th to 20th Kings. Your best bet is to get somewith with Ancestry access to provide you with the info. Yes, it is Royal Lancaster - rather than Lancashire Thanks Julian. I have Ancestry access myself and now have the 4 possible mens numbers and regiments as follows: Arthur Davies: Liverpool Regiment 74407, Labour Corps 49911. Arthur Davies: Liverpool Regiment 60051, Labour Corps 53530. Arthur Davies: Liverpool Regiment 6390, Labour Corps 456599, Liverpool Regiment 103289. Arthur Davies: Royal Lancashire Regiment 32551, South Lancashire Regiment 27477, 51/TR Bn 12286, Liverpool Regiment, 87647, Royal Engineers 286387. Would you by any chance be able to tell me what 51/TR Bn stands for? Is this something to do with the Liverpool Regiment? And if so why does it have a separate regimental number? Also was there a limit to how old you had to be before you could register? I have been told that 32551 joined Royal Lancashire between Dec 1915 and Jan 1916, when Arthur would have been about 20. Would he by any chance have been too young to have joined Liverpool Regiment with 6390?? Thanks for the help guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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