Cwg being looked after!

[markinbelfast]

Isn't it reassuring to see that while the area around it is going to waste the cwg is looked after!!tended

[burlington]

Mark- where is this please?

[markinbelfast]

Milltown Cemetery on the Falls Road Belfast....taken this afternoon.

[burlington]

Thanks

Very sad to see a cemetary like this.

[Guest Simon Bull]

I know not whether it applies to the cemetery in question, but can I point out that some cemeteries are deliberately left relatively untended, as it considerably increases their value as refuges for wildlife. I used to live in Huntingdonshire and near where I lived was a village churchyard (can't now remember name of village) which had a notice up explaining that the churchyard was not carefully tended as part of a national scheme to attempt to encourage churchyards to become wildlife refuges.

Simon Bull

[burlington]

I know not whether it applies to the cemetery in question, but can I point out that some cemeteries are deliberately left relatively untended, as it considerably increases their value as refuges for wildlife.

Simon

I have a problem with this, or rather I feel as though I might have.

Any views from other Pals?

[johng]

Mark, I have just recently visited the same cemetery.

The idea that it is a suitable place for wild life, is only too sadly confirmed by the number of vandalised and damaged graves.

I had photographed the Great War Memorial only after clearing tin-cans, plastic cups and bottles, and the unfinished remains of several 'carry-out' meals.

I decided not to mention the existance of this particular memorial.

If anyone was inclined to go and see it, they may well be upset by the state of the place.

We can only hope that, as the song says, "the times they are a-changing".

Can't happen too soon.

johng

[Terry Denham]

This is a frequent response from some cemetery/churchyard owners nowadays.

Whilst it undoubtedly helps wildlife, the initiation of such action is always financial. It saves them having to spend money on maintenance.

[markinbelfast]

To be honest I was up there a couple of days and have never seem the memorial so well looked after...In the past its heart breaking to see it covered in everything unthinkable.

This time she was sparkling...for the first time I noticed that many of the cwg had flowers upon them..this came as a big and pleasant surprise to me...very heartening indeed...

The Polish WW2 KIA are as usual pristine

The IRA plot has been total redone and there were about 10 working on it the day I was there.

[johng]

Mark, that is an excellent shot of the Memorial.

I was there a few weeks ago and spoke to some of the men working on the Republican Plot.

They were replacing twenty marble head-stones which had been smashed by 'the local wild life', I hope that whole area has benefitted from the clean-up.

(perhaps the times are changing?)

Regards, johng

[Guest Simon Bull]

I said

“I know not whether it applies to the cemetery in question, but can I point out that some cemeteries are deliberately left relatively untended, as it considerably increases their value as refuges for wildlife. I used to live in Huntingdonshire and near where I lived was a village churchyard (can't now remember name of village) which had a notice up explaining that the churchyard was not carefully tended as part of a national scheme to attempt to encourage churchyards to become wildlife refuges.”

Burlington said

"I have a problem with this, or rather I feel as though I might have."

Burlington - can I try to persuade you that you should not have a problem with this idea?

As a keen conservationist I really would speak up for the idea that some cemeteries should be wildlife refuges, provided that this is not just an excuse for allowing the gravestones to deteriorate (in which respect there can surely be a happy medium). With many of our common birds (e.g. Song Thrush, Starling, House Sparrow) in a frighteningly drastic (possibly even terminal) decline something has to be done for them and these places really are excellent for wildlife - what looks a mess to us is a paradise for birds. As I type this I am looking out from my study window over our parish churchyard, and, (even though the churchyard is becoming increasingly brutally tended), it is still the best haven for birds for miles.

Furthermore, I think if I were buried there I would rather be surrounded by singing birds than well-tended but rarely trod upon grass. One of the things I love about the battlefields is hearing the larks sing in a way that our soldier ancestors must also have heard (and many of them drawn comfort from in an hour of great need), but which is almost gone from large tracts of the agribusiness prairies which were once our countryside. One of my Great Grandfathers who served in the War was a postman who (despite living in industrial Birmingham) used his rural round to become a knowledgeable birdwatcher, an interest (but not a talent) which has passed down the generations to several in the family. He died of TB contracted on War Service, but too long after the War to have a CWGC grave. He lies in an unmarked grave in Aston Churchyard. I really hope he is in the overgrown part of the churchyard where the mice scurry and the birds sing - although I never knew him I am sure that he would be happiest there, amongst the wildlife he loved.

To use British cemeteries and churchyards as places where birds and small mammals can continue to thrive in an otherwise hostile world seems to me to be a very worthwhile memorial to those who lie there, most of whom would have known a much more rural environment than we do today and would have been much more attuned to wildlife. I do not think that we should let conservative (with a small c) ideas of commemoration spoil what may be one of the last opportunities for our wildlife – we really are in desperate danger of losing many of the species we take for granted. The silent spring that Rachel Carson predicted in the sixties due to pesticides was averted by anti-DDT legislation then, but is creeping up on us again.

Regards

Simon

[Guest Brummy]

Hi,

I used to work for the CWGC and the general vibe is to maintain war graves as well as can be acheived, as far as circumstances and finances allow. However back in the 1980's I used to work for Friends of the Earth, as part of that work we used to work in civilian cemetaries in and around Wolverhampton. The general idea was to create and maintain summer meadows, around the graves, for fauna and flora habitats. But the chuches never allowed any grass cutting or maintainence on any graves, we where told that this was because if the church could prove that a grave had not been tended for a certain number of years they could claim back the plot and re-sell it for a new burial. If the laws in Northern Ierland are the same as those in England, this may explain why the civilian graves are so unkempt.

brum

[eviltaxman]

Unfortunately here in Bristol, we've had an on going situation (recently settled) over Arnos Vale Cemetery. I've been doing some research of local men that worked for Fry's (the choccy people) before & during WW1. I found one grave that wasn't even marked. Hopefully below is the pic I took. It resembled a large ant hill rather than any marker.

The guy that "looks after the place" for the local council, had to refer to plot listings to even come close!!

My Webpage

[Terry Denham]

Evil T.

Who is the casualty?

[Guest Pete Wood]

Terry, I don't think this is a military grave. He was a civilian - called Matthews(?).

Evil T, come to Highgate if you want to go nuts looking for a grave....

[Terry Denham]

Was he civilian or was he this chap...?

MATTHEWS, Private, JOHN THOMAS, SE/25584. Depot. Royal Army Veterinary Corps. Died of pneumonia 24th March 1919. Age 41. Husband of H. R. Matthews, of 21, Windmill Hill, Bedminster, Bristol. Grave. OOO.258.

Though you are no doubt right, Pete!

[eviltaxman]

Was he civilian or was he this chap...?

MATTHEWS, Private, JOHN THOMAS, SE/25584. Depot. Royal Army Veterinary Corps. Died of pneumonia 24th March 1919. Age 41. Husband of H. R. Matthews, of 21, Windmill Hill, Bedminster, Bristol. Grave. OOO.258.

Though you are no doubt right, Pete!

Terry,

Yep, that's the chap.

I had to pop out for a while... and realised I hadn't put any details in the posting... DOH!

Les.

[Terry Denham]

Les

It is still just possible that this is not the right plot.

You could email CWGC UK office on ukaoffice@cwgc.org and ask them to give you a description of the grave marker. They keep notes of each private grave's markings.

If their description says 'unmarked' or 'ant hill' etc, then you know it is the right one.

I suspect that they already know about its condition and any action is awaiting the outcome of the general fate of the cemetery. As it is a private grave, they cannot simply just march in and erect a Commission headstone.

[eviltaxman]

We (Richard from the Trust & I) checked & double checked the position in relation to other graves. You can't see it in the picture, but there is another War Grave one row over and 2 along. To the left of the "ant hill" (just out of shot on the left) is a known details of another grave. This was also used to establish the correct placing, or lack off. I haven't been back there for a couple of months, but Richard did say he is often in contact with CWGC and he would bring this to their attention.

The list Richard used is THE list for locating any grave in the cemetery, whether it's military or civvy. He can pinpoint a grave (over 100 years & buried under bushes) to within 1 grave... i.e. 6 ft.

Les.

[Terry Denham]

Sounds like you might have the right plot there then!

Good luck.