'Japanese' Rifles issued to 2/Line Territorial early 1915

[mikebriggs]

Hello all

The 2/6th Battn Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby) were issued with ~600 'Japanese rifles and ammunition' in early 1915. Does anyone have an idea of what make they might have been?

I think that one is shown in the attached photo; they have big bayonets!

many thanks

Mike

[Torrey McLean]

Hello, Mike - They were the 6.5mm Type 38 rifles. This also was the usual rifle used during the early part of WWII. [The 7.7mm Type 99 rifle began showing up during the middle of WWII, and both the Type 38s and the Type 99s are common souvenirs brought home by U.S. veterans of the Pacific Theater.] . Regards, Torrey

[Garron]

Its a Type 30 Arisaka Rifle,

If you search Arisaka you will find a few thread with plenty of info in.

Gaz

[mikebriggs]

dear both

many thanks, I'll look into it further now that i have the name

cheers

mike

[TonyE]

The regular members will be bored by me posting this again, but no matter, here are the main points..

In late 1914/early 1915 Britain acquired 150,000 Japanese rifles, consisting on Type 30 rifles and Type 38 rifles and carbines. The first 50,000 rifles went to the Royal Navy in early 1915 to release SMLEs for the army and the balance were used to train the New Armies.

The 6.5mm Type 30 was known as Rifle, magazine, .256 inch Pattern 1900 and the Type .38s as Rifle (or Carbine) magazine, .256 inch Pattern 1907.

The bayonet is no different to the British Pattern '07 in length, 17 inches. In fact that is because the British were impressed with the Arisaka bayonet in the trials of 1906/7 and copied it almost exactly to make the P.'07.

Early ammunition came from Japan but we manufactured it in the UK in 1916 and 1917, mainly on contract for Russia who had 750,000 Arisakas (and also eventually got ours)

Regards

TonyE

BTW It is a Type 38 in the picture.

[Pete1052]

In 1946 my dad brought an Arisaka Model 99 7.7 mm back from occupation Japan. He got his the easy way: he won it at the raffle held at the office Christmas party of the staff of the G.I. Stars and Stripes-Pacific newspaper in December 1945. Years ago there was a gun magazine article about an Arisaka taken to a gunsmith with the complaint that it seemed to have excessive recoil. It turned out that the guy had tried to fire 7.7 mm ammunition out of a 6.5 mm rifle.

[TonyE]

Slightly OT, but I have seen 9mm Para put through a 7.63mm Broomhandle with very little problem other than heavy recoil. We also once changed a Vickers from .303 to 11mm. We changed the barrel, feed block, lock etc., but forgot to change the muzzle booster. No problem, although the 11mm bullets swaging themselves through a .303 hole made for some interesting pyrotechnics at the muzzle!

Regards

TonyE

[squirrel]

Some Arisakas were issued to the TF as well, 1/18th, London Irish Rifles that I know of.

Their Long Lees were replaced with Arisakas in December 14 IIRC and they were issued with SMLE's shortly before they left for France in March 1915, the Arisakas going to the 2/18th.

[mikebriggs]

very interesting; thanks to all

Mike

[deadin]

It looks like a Type 38. The Type 30 had a "Hook" Safety and the one in the picture appears to have the later mushroom type.

Another oddity regarding Japanese arms is the Type "I" that surfaces every now and then. They were Italian Carcano's chambered in 6.5 Arisaka. Japan had taken them as part of some sort of trade deal between the two countries. As far as I know the majority were never issued but some may have been used for training.

Dean

[TonyE]

It looks like a Type 38. The Type 30 had a "Hook" Safety and the one in the picture appears to have the later mushroom type.

Another oddity regarding Japanese arms is the Type "I" that surfaces every now and then. They were Italian Carcano's chambered in 6.5 Arisaka. Japan had taken them as part of some sort of trade deal between the two countries. As far as I know the majority were never issued but some may have been used for training.

Dean

It is a Type 38. See my post No.5 above.

Regards

TonyE

[dman]

Another oddity regarding Japanese arms is the Type "I" that surfaces every now and then. They were Italian Carcano's chambered in 6.5 Arisaka. Japan had taken them as part of some sort of trade deal between the two countries. As far as I know the majority were never issued but some may have been used for training.

Type "I" rifles were a 1930's model - they were purchased by the Imperial Japanese Navy to arm

its Special Naval Landing troops and for shipboard arms . The Imperial Army was taking all the

production for its uses leaving the Navy to scrounge what it could. The Type I were modified Carcano

rifles using the Mauser 5 round staggered box magazine instead of the inline Mannlicher clip loading.