john_g_4472 Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 I wonder if anybody can identify this car please, serving with the German Army against the Russians in November - December 1914. And why is it right-hand drive? Regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddell Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 John, Can you play around with the image and enlarge the radiator area. it might make it easier to identify from the front on shot. I think you will find most European cars were manufactured as right hand drive till the mid twenties. Something to do with which side of the roads the Romans used. Regards, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_4472 Posted 5 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2008 As requested, here is a closer view. Regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddell Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 Thanks John, I just wanted a closer look at the badge and its shape on the radiator. I realise the clarity isn't great. I'll run it by my dad who is a vintage car tragic over the next couple of days. Unless someone else can identify it before then. Regards, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_4472 Posted 5 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2008 Dear Scott, Many thanks. The radiator does seem to be a distinctive shape, so recognition to those in the know may be straightforward. I have seen another of the same type of car with a Bavarian shield on the flank, so presumably its use was not uncommon. Best wishes, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 I have letters from my grand-father, traveling to the front in late December 1914 over the Russian Polish roads in his staff car, and it was quite a trial, with the passengers having to get out and push with some frequency. Unfortunately the letters are brief (Something to do with fighting a war, I think.). Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 Many parts of the Austo Hungarian Empire used right hand drive cars at this time. Germany, Russia, Italy all used left hand drive. It's in the main due to which countries were occupied by France at some time in the Napoleonic period. The demarcation line in the KuK apparently marked the high water mark of French occupation with Austia divided between driving on the left and driving on the right. With Anchluss Austria went entirely over to left hand drive. Czechoslovakia went over after the German occupation as well I once knew some one who was there at the time. It seems that the Germans announced that from a certain day all traffic would drive on the other side of the road, all caught disobeying the rule would be classed as economic saboteurs, all economic saboteurs would be shot. The change over went without a hitch! Perhaps that car is an KuK staff car? It looks like an Austro Daimler. I have seen photos of these - right hand drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Just as an aside, what kind of hat is being worn by the horseman on the extreme right ?? It looks similar to a British FSC ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahoehler Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 . . . . similar to a British FSC ?? Or the Austrian prototype. Or a visiting Boer in period uniform. Or pre WW1 colonial. Or . . . . Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_4472 Posted 6 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Mnay thanks for these diverse replies. The information about left and right-hand drive in the KuK is most interesting. The photograph, by the way, is in the form of a cigarette card-sized card published by Immalin-Werke in the 1930s. The caption reads: 'Die Schlacht bei Lodz. 16.11.-15.12.1914. Schweres Vorwärtskommen auf russischen "Wegen" in Polen.' So nothing about whether any Austro-Hungarians are in the scene. Re the cap of the chap on the right, I think it is an ordinary peaked cap. Regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Probably wrong, but it looks a bit like a Bugatti bonet shape, radiator/badge? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 I think its possibly a Austro Daimler Prinz Heinrich. These had a number of radiator grill variations but the same bonnet shape - see link AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_4472 Posted 6 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 6 October , 2008 The radiator does look a bit Bugatti-like, Ian, but as far as I am aware production of all Bugatti models was very limited. The Austro-Daimler Prinz Heinrich lead does seem promising, Centurion, many thanks. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-ted Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Evening all. Just a thought but could the original have been printed the wrong way round off the negative? See flipped copy of photo. Regards. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 The caption reads: 'Die Schlacht bei Lodz. 16.11.-15.12.1914. Schweres Vorwärtskommen auf russischen "Wegen" in Polen.' So nothing about whether any Austro-Hungarians are in the scene. Regards, John. I am too lazy to look up a map and see how far north Lodz was, but I do not think that the Germans and Austrians were co-mingled that early in the war, and certainly the Austrians were not going north to help the Germans. The Germans had something like the (in translation) the Royal Auto Corps, and many private cars were taken into service, often with the wealthy owners and perhaps their chauffeurs. So all sorts of cars could be serving the German Army in the period. I would think that many Germans bought Austro-Daimlers; their either director or technical director was one Professor Ferdinand Porsche, who designed the super motor chassis on the famous 30.5 cm Motor=Moerser, which could zip about at considerable speed. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valentinegt Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Not a Bugatti radiator, they were like an arched window with the badge at the top, a few early ones had rads like a BMW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddell Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 G'day John, I think my uncle may have identified it. It looks to be an NSU. Have a look at this site and the distinctive radiator- http://www.nsu.nu/history1.htm Paragraph 6 talks about their production of vehicles and motorcycles in world war one. It's definitely not a Bugatti. I think the radiator is similar in shape to the Bugatti Brescia. But they were a rare and expensive beast at the time and definitely a more sporting vehicle. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Yes, the picture of the NSU radiator looks pretty conclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 The last place I would have searched, wiki, and there it is NSU 8/40. NSU seem to have changed from right to left hand drive between 1924 and 26 Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Looks more like the 6/18 to me: http://www.norskveteranvognklubb.no/messin...3/nsu_1913.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddell Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 That's the one runflat. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_4472 Posted 7 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Dear Scott, Many thanks to you and your uncle - the car does seem certainly to be an NSU. This looks like another one. (Cropped by the original photographer, unfortunately.) Note the Bavarian shield painted on the flank, and the fact that the soldiers have only one cockade on their caps. ((Does anybody know why, please?) Regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 John With only four vents on the bonnet sides, I doubt this new image is a NSU, but I can't yet offer a suggestion as to what it may be. One of the best NSU sites is here: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2529/index.html Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 This looks like another one. (Cropped by the original photographer, unfortunately.) Note the Bavarian shield painted on the flank, and the fact that the soldiers have only one cockade on their caps. ((Does anybody know why, please?) Regards, John. At least the non-driver in the front seat has the national cockade as well as the Bavarian one. (On average the German Reich cockade is darker than the Bavarian one, might not be noticed.) Surprising, rather a subversive step, the Reds in the 1919 civil war did that. Sort of like a US soldier wearing a US flag on his uniform upside down. I may be wrong, but don't think so. Got a date for the photo? Post-war? 1919, Bavarian Republic? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddell Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 John, It's a pleasure to help. Looking at the vehicle on Alans link (Norsk veteran club) she appears to be a little on the light side construction wise for field work. 1583cc and 1000 kg weight. That radiator though is very distinctive. This site may interest you if you are collecting photo's of German cars in the war- http://www.germanautoandaerocorps.com/auto...ish/inhalt.html It's mainly about knives, but there are photo's of uniforms and even one or two cars. Regards, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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