Tiger & Rose Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 I am trying to get the army service record of my Grandmother's first husband. Thomas Hatton of the York and Lancaster Regiment ( Sheffield City Battalion) army number 12551 who was killed the first day of the Battle of the Somme. I am trying to find pension information regarding my grandmother, what she received and how long she drew the pension. Has anyone had any luck searching in the Soldiers' Documents, First World War 'Burnt Documents' (catalogue reference WO363). These are the 'burnt documents' that survived the bombing in 1940 and consist of about 20 to 25% of the original total. Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 T&R Welcome to the Forum. If his record survived it would be in microfilm spool WO363/H1119 at Kew. I note from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site that he served in the 8th Battalion Yorks and Lancs. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger & Rose Posted 4 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2008 T&R Welcome to the Forum. If his record survived it would be in microfilm spool WO363/H1119 at Kew. I note from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site that he served in the 8th Battalion Yorks and Lancs. Sotonmate He served in the 8th Battalion? Then would not have been the Sheffield City Battalion. Thanks for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Welcome to the forum Tiger & Rose, my dad always referred to it as the Cat & Cabbage. I've just had a quick online search of WO 363, it would suggest that his service papers are there and held in WO 363/H1119, also had a search of WO 364 (these are soldier's documents from pension claims) so I would also check n WO 364/1572. The actual War Widows Pension papers are held in PIN 82/ but no Thomas Hatton appears within these documents. These are all avialable to view at the National Archives but not online, but do remember that his papers may not be there, the only way to be sure is to pay a visit to Kew. Just to clarify Thomas' battalion as the 8th York and Lancs and not the 12th (Sheffield City Battalion) York and Lancs who were the original Pals battalion. I note that Thomas' was born in Heeley, I grew up next door in Meersbrook, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonmaid Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 From SDGW THOMAS HATTON Regiment, Corps etc York and Lancaster Regiment Battalion/etc 8th (Service) Battalion. Details Surname Hatton Christian Name Thomas Initials T Born Heeley, Sheffield Enlisted Sheffield Residence Rank PRIVATE Number 12551 Died Date 01/07/1916 Died How Killed in action Theatre of War France & Flanders Supplementary Notes Thomas Hatton - Battalion Details -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regiment, Corps etc York and Lancaster Regiment Battalion/etc 8th (Service) Battalion. Battalion Details Formed at Pontefract Sept. 1914-K3-to Frensham in 70th Bde. 23rd Div. Nov. 1914 Aldershot Feb. 1915 Hythe. May 1915 Bordon. 27.8.15 landed at Boulogne. 70th Bde. with 8th Div. 18.10.15 to 17.7.16. Nov. 1917 to Italy. 11.11.18 70th Bde. 23rd Div. Italy; Porcia area, west of Pordenone. Ellie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Nice one Barry, Just out of interest with Thomas' birthplace, do the papers contain an address for him? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonmaid Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Ellie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonmaid Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Address on service record gives his fathers address as 73 and 83 Sheldon Street, Sheffield Ellie Edit: also give his wife Rosetta and 3 children living at 10 Hodgson Street, Sheffiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Hi all, Sheldon St it was, Pension Widows Form No.3 dated 2.3.,17. for widow and 3 children 20/6 (Shillings and Pence presumably) per week from 26.2.17 further form states 19/6 and 3/6. Regards, Barry PS Welcome to the Forum Tiger & Rose, much better than the Tele!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger & Rose Posted 4 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Hi all, Sheldon St it was, Pension Widows Form No.3 dated 2.3.,17. for widow and 3 children 20/6 (Shillings and Pence presumably) per week from 26.2.17 further form states 19/6 and 3/6. Regards, Barry You guys are fantastic. I am really impressed, and grateful for the information. Is there anywhere in the pension records that show when my Grandmother Rosetta stopped drawing the pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonmaid Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Awarded a pension of 20/6 a week for herself and 3 children. Ellie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Hi Tiger & Rose Looked at the forms couldn't find an end date to Pension. Will look again Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Great result Ellie and Barry, thanks for the address, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Hi Tiger & Rose Not yet finished!!! Army Form B104-90 when blown up to 400% shows 20/6 Separation allowance and 3/6 Allotment of pay last date payment will be made given as 25.2.17. The "will be" is handwritten over the typewriting stating has been made. Enjoy researching, Barry PS. Obviously there is a discrepancy with the payment dates unless different depts. paid from 25th and 26th 2.17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger & Rose Posted 4 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Hi Tiger & Rose Not yet finished!!! Army Form B104-90 when blown up to 400% shows 20/6 Separation allowance and 3/6 Allotment of pay last date payment will be made given as 25.2.17. The "will be" is handwritten over the typewriting stating has been made. Enjoy researching, Barry PS. Obviously there is a discrepancy with the payment dates unless different depts. paid from 25th and 26th 2.17. I am to understand this as she started drawing the pension on 25.2.17. In breaking down the pension; 20/6 Separation allowance and 3/6 Allotment of Pay, does than mean she received 24 shillings a week. Also not quite sure what is meant by the 3/6 allotment of pay and why it would be separated. Family stories claim there was a dispute over the number of children since the first child was born out of wedlock and Thomas Hatton's father had to swear that the first child was indeed the child of his son Thomas. May that have something to do with the discrepancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 Hi Tiger &Rose Haven't got the answers, sorry. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger & Rose Posted 6 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Hi Tiger &Rose Haven't got the answers, sorry. Barry Thanks very much for all the research, it's greatly appreciated. The only thing I didn't learn is when my Grandmother stopped drawing the pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 8 October , 2008 Share Posted 8 October , 2008 T&R I read the Service record of Pte T HATTON yesterday at Kew. They are in WO363/H1119 and run from Folios 0716 to 0747 should you want to get a copy. To confirm that the Army Allowances of 19/6 Seperation Allowance,and the 3/6 Allotment from his pay for his family stopped on 25.2.1917 and the Widow's (and 3 children) weekly Pension of 20/6 started from 26.2.1917 and I would think continued until here death,maybe adjusted at some point when the children were older. Another fact gleaned from the papers was that he was wounded on 3.3.1916,a gunshot wound in the left arm,and back on duty on the 11/3/1916. His papers showed him as Missing on 16/7/1916. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 8 October , 2008 Share Posted 8 October , 2008 Hi all Many thanks to Sotonmate for finishing this off. Brilliant Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger & Rose Posted 10 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2008 T&R I read the Service record of Pte T HATTON yesterday at Kew. They are in WO363/H1119 and run from Folios 0716 to 0747 should you want to get a copy. To confirm that the Army Allowances of 19/6 Seperation Allowance,and the 3/6 Allotment from his pay for his family stopped on 25.2.1917 and the Widow's (and 3 children) weekly Pension of 20/6 started from 26.2.1917 and I would think continued until here death,maybe adjusted at some point when the children were older. Another fact gleaned from the papers was that he was wounded on 3.3.1916,a gunshot wound in the left arm,and back on duty on the 11/3/1916. His papers showed him as Missing on 16/7/1916. Sotonmate Thank you very much for taking the time to read through his service record. I did not know that he had been wounded prior to him being killed in action. I imagine with Thomas Hatton being finally listed as killed in action on 1/7/1916 and being listed as missing on 16/7/1916, speaks to the carnage and confusion that existed on the Somme that first few weeks in July 1916. One finally question regarding the pension. Would the pension have stopped when my grandmother remarried and would that date not be in the service record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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