'Formerly enlisted' in Manchester Regt.

[Stephen Barker]

1. In Soldiers Died in The Great War several men who enlisted together in the same place (Wigan) and who spent the duration of the war in one unit (8th East Lancs) before being killed, are recorded as being formerly of the Manchester Regt. I know these men were in the 8th East Lancs early on its formation. Why if they enlisted in the Manchester Regt. did they transfer to the East Lancs? What might the circumstances be?

2. In In Soldiers Died in The Great War a chap who is recorded as being born at a place called Ballaghaderreen, County Mayo is reported as enlisting at quote - "Wigan (Ballaghaderreen)" What does this mean? That he enlisted in Ireland and the papers were then sent to Wigan?

I'd be really grateful for some answers.

Regards

Stephen Barker

[John_Hartley]

Stephen

If it's very early, then it was possibly that they enlisted in a Manchester Regiment Territorial Bn (or were pre-war members of it). Their experience may have been particularly valued and they were transferred. Any idea of their Manc service numbers - might give me a clue. 8th East lancs and 13th Mancs were both in 25th Division - may be the link

It's also possible that SDGW is simply wrong.

John

[Stephen Barker]

John

Thanks for this

Numbers of these men:

John Ashall - 9752 Manchester regt (16314)

Martin Grady - 11348 Manchester regt (16317)

Joseph Brownhill 6160 Manchester Regt. (16319)

Number in brackets - East Lancs number.

This is a big help. One of these men in this batch of 1631- numbers went straight into the East Lancs as a Sergeant - I thought he might have had some previous military experience.

Thanks again this sounds about right.

Any other suggestions anyone would be gratefully received.

Stephen Barker

[John_Hartley]

Stephen

This is becoming odder by the minute. All three guys have Manchester Regiment service numbers that put them smack bang with the the Pals Battalions, but they do not appear in the City Battalions Book of Honour. You've got a right spread of Bns as well. it looks like Brownhill was originally 16th Bn, Ashall probably 17th or 18th and Grady 19th (all appprox).

If I had to guess, then I'd say that these guys travelled to Manchester to enlist and were signed up.The spread across battalions suggest that they did not join up together. Very, very quickly (i.e. within a few days) it was then decided to pass them along to the East Lancs. I can't see anything in the relevent Manchester histories, but there may be something in the East Lancs. I will happily be corrected by a Forum member with more knowledge of the East Lancs, but I have it mind that, in the very early days, recruitment went much better for the Mancs than the Lancs.

I see from SDGW that there are several ex-Mancs with service numbers 163?? There seems to be no pattern about where they enlisted or resided. Could they have worked together or had some skill that was lacking in the East Lancs (need for guys who could immediately be NCOs?) Other than that sort of speculation, I give up.

You've got me curious now - let me know how you get on.

John

[CROONAERT]

If I had to guess, then I'd say that these guys travelled to Manchester to enlist and were signed up.The spread across battalions suggest that they did not join up together. Very, very quickly (i.e. within a few days) it was then decided to pass them along to the East Lancs. I can't see anything in the relevent Manchester histories, but there may be something in the East Lancs. I will happily be corrected by a Forum member with more knowledge of the East Lancs, but I have it mind that, in the very early days, recruitment went much better for the Mancs than the Lancs.

Nothing in the E.L.R. history. However, if they were transferred from the Mancs to the Lancs early days, then they had a fair train journey.....

...The 8th East Lancs were formed in Codford in Wiltshire in September 1914 and then moved to near Bournemouth, some platoons practically becoming a "Bournemouth Pals" unit (strange as it seems).Many of the new recruits came from London, South Wales and Bournmouth itself, with others sent down from Lancashire. From here (Pokesdown), they moved to Widmill Hill,Ludgershall, then onto Hungerford then....France! (the Batallion practically never having even set foot in Lancashire!).

This could, I suppose account for the fact that the 8th was a bit of a Lancastrian "Foreign Legion" with soldiers from all areas , possibly showing a lack of recruits? As John has suggested, the Manchesters may have been "oversubscribed" and so some were sent to other units to fill their numbers.

Incidentally, the 8th is mentioned as having "a strong NCO and officer "backbone", made up of ex-regulars and veterans of previous wars".

Hope this helps a little ( )

Dave.