Model-T Fords

[alfisherjr]

I've seen photos of Model-T Fords stenciled "MMGS" snd equipped with a Vickers machine gun but know little about them. Apparently they differed slightly from the light patrol cars used in the desert both in armament and model. Were they widely used or on an experimental basis only? Were they confined to the Wetern Front or did they find their way to Russia or other areas? Would appreciate whatever someone can share.

Thanks . . .

Al

[centurion]

Possibly the Truck 8/10 cwt Machine Gun (Ford) built on the basis of the truck and not the car version. Built for service in Mesopotamia for patrol/recce but I think mainly used as a machine gun carrier. Do you have acopy of a photo you could post?

[RobL]

I've only seen the photo of the one, it's a pre-1917 Ford model T (with the earlier brass radiator), with the occupants sat in it with SD caps. RPM made a 1/72 and 1/35 version of it for a model

As to how many others were built and if it (they?) was used on the western front, I don't know

[per ardua per mare per terram]

They had previously been used by the RNAS, see David Fletcher's War Cars.

[centurion]

This is the Ford T truck based version, these were for Mesopotamia

[RobL]

What page is that on? Can't find any reference in my copy as to MMGS Ford's being ex-MMGS

[Richard Fisher]

The War Office publication Statistics 1914 - 1920 identifies that the Army of Occupation in Egypt had 6 Light Armoured Car Patrols totalling 2 officers and 16 ORs using "Ford Cars carrying Lewis Guns".

Regards

Richard

[Richard Fisher]

The photo below is from the Australian War Memorial and identifies it as Australians using the Model T in Palestine.

They're quite nice, I fancy one!

Richard

[centurion]

The War Office publication Statistics 1914 - 1920 identifies that the Army of Occupation in Egypt had 6 Light Armoured Car Patrols totalling 2 officers and 16 ORs using "Ford Cars carrying Lewis Guns".

Its possible that these were the Ford light armoured car also used by the RNAS see photo. This had an Mg in a three quarters shield that could fire rearwards and to the side. [This should not be confused with the post war Polish armoured Ford T]

[centurion]

A shot from the AWM of Model T in Jordan

[centurion]

And also in Syria. Similar cars were used in the Western Desert. Jeep mounted long range patrols in WW2 found tyre tracks and campsites dating from WW1 from these patrols. The model T had one advantage over the later Jeep. - if ditched it was light enough for the crew to man handle it back onto sound ground.

[alfisherjr]

Tried to post this before, but don't know what happened.

The only image I've seen is the one that Centurion posted. I have the same one, but with the legend "No 20 Battery MMGS converted one of their Ford T's into a four-wheeled machine gun carrier." I don't know the source. So apparently it was a "one of" despite the number of model kits manufactured.

I'm also interested in the light patrol car as used in the desert. Can't tell if those are storage bins on the back or an expanded boddy. Apparently there were 'early' and 'late' versions.

Al

[Andrew Upton]

The only image I've seen is the one that Centurion posted. I have the same one, but with the legend "No 20 Battery MMGS converted one of their Ford T's into a four-wheeled machine gun carrier." I don't know the source. So apparently it was a "one of" despite the number of model kits manufactured.

I suspect the "legend" is just that, as I've seen photographs of a surviving example in the UK, and I don't believe it was the only one ever made like that.

http://europeanww1lh.forumup.be/viewtopic....m=europeanww1lh

[centurion]

Photo of one of the patrol cars used in the Western Desert Model T

[per ardua per mare per terram]

In the Tin Lizzies centenary year, this is a fitting time to honour her war role. Are there any pre 1914 examples of machine gun fitted model T's shown in America?

Derek Fletcher in War Cars pictures a Model T Ford with a Colt machine gun mounted by the Ulster ‘loyalists’ in 1912 (p.11), he later (p.25) mentioned that Oliver Locker-Lampson had connections with the Ulster Volunteer Force. Fletcher mentioned that in “December 1916 the [RNACD] was strengthened with the arrival of some half-dozen light armoured cars on Ford Model T chassis” and illustrated two (pp.28-29). He mentions that the Hedjaz Armoured Car Section, which included an armoured Model T was an off shoot of the pool of RNAS cars and illustrates one serving that with it (pp. 42-43) He also mentions that the armoured Model Ts for the Light Car Patrols in the Middle East (including one with whistle on the radiator) and illustrates and one for 20 Battery MMGS (pp.42, 60). The Modal T seems to have been ubiquitous and the level of armour seems to vary with the Russian cars giving all round protection.