Identification of item around shoulder on WWI Uniform

[AliMo61]

I am putting some information together on my late Great Uncle Private Fred Trueman who died in 1916. I have obtained newpaper articles and photos but I am trying to confirm identification of what is around his left shoulder. I wonder if it is cord or braid that belongs to a bugle or trumpet or whether it identfies his role. I have also seen another photo with local boy with a similar thing around his shoulder and also on a photo of 195 soldier, two of them had this braid thing around their shoulder. Does anyone know. Is it a bugle or a trumpet or something and if so what was it acutally used for and when was it used. Was this person always the bugler until death......

Also I have obtained this information below, but does anyone know how I get to find out actually where he died other than Frace, and what he actually died from. In the newspaper articles it has varying statements: Shot, acute nephritis and pneumonia......any information is greatly appreciated.

Alison Moseley

1 TRUEMAN, FRED Private1598330/03/1916 21Cheshire RegimentUnited KingdomI. A. 1.ST. HILAIRE CEMETERY, FREVENT

[Grovetown]

It is a lanyard. Although historically associated/ originating with the artillery, in the Great War they were an issue item to all men of all arms/ corps; and theoretically had the issue jack knife on the other end, which itself was theoretically kept in the left breast pocket of the tunic.

Best wishes,

GT.

[truthergw]

Hi Alison. As GT says the lanyard was simply an optional part of a uniform. Optional for the commanding officer, that is. If a CO decided that his unit should wear one, then they would. If worn, it could be used to make sure some piece of equipment could not be lost. A knife, a pistol etc. It sounds as though your man was wounded but was suffering from pneumonia and a kidney complaint when he died. Whether that was a result of being wounded I do not know. As regards being a bugler. He would have had other duties as well, he would most likely have been a rifleman. There is very little information available with reference to other ranks. Even in his unit diaries, his wounding would not be noticed by name. The normal reference being any officers killed or wounded, named and O.R.s( other ranks) by number. i.e. 1 O.R> killed, 4 ORs wounded. You would need letters or similar to tie his wounding to a particular reference in the Unit diaries. There are many variables but I think that is a reasonable general description of what went on.

[Grovetown]

A knife, a pistol etc.

The jack knife lanyards and pistol lanyards (worn around the neck) are really quite different - essentially in substance and length. If you attached a pistol to the issue knife lanyard, you'd be aiming from somewhere around your throat...

Best wishes,

GT.

[MBrockway]

Alison,

One of the other Pals may be able to look up Fred Trueman in Soldiers Died In The Great War (aka SDGW) which usually differentiates between Killed In Action, Died Of Wounds and Died (usually of sickness).

Sometimes there's other useful info there too.

You link to the CWGC has Fred as being in the 10th Battalion of the Cheshires. Here's a link to the

Cheshire Regiment page on the main site which will tell you a little about the 10th Battalion.

It seems that in March 1916 10/Cheshire were in 7th Brigade in 25th Division. Again, one of the other Pals may be able to give you some War Diary info for the period around Fred's death on the 30th March 1916. We should at least be able to tell you where the battalion was at that time.

10/Cheshire were certainly involved at Vimy in May 1916, but so far I haven't been able to work out whether they moved there when the BEF took over the area from the French in March 1916, or later.

Fred is buried in Frevent Cemetery, which is on the site of 43rd Casualty Clearing Station. Frevent is well in the south of the area held by the BEF in early 1916 and would be consistent with evacuation from Vimy, but it's a long way back from the Front, so that doesn't really prove much. It certainly suggests though that he died in hospital rather than at the Front.

There is also a specialist Cheshire Regiment expert available at the Cheshires Regimental Museum at Chester on Saturday mornings, but I would advise you to do the basic research first before you contact him.

I see CWGC also has Fred listed as "Son of William and Elizabeth Trueman, of "Sycamore," Slade Lane, Over Alderley, Chelford, Crewe". By an odd coincidence Slade Lane is just behind the Alderley Park labs where I worked until this year! I may well have ran past his old house one lunchtime!

Good luck ... and keep us posted!

Cheers,

Mark

[Wardog]

'Soldiers Died' only states 'Died' France and Flanders. Born -Wildboarclough, Enlisted-Macclesfield, Residence-Gawsworth. Sorry, Paul.

[AliMo61]

'Soldiers Died' only states 'Died' France and Flanders. Born -Wildboarclough, Enlisted-Macclesfield, Residence-Gawsworth. Sorry, Paul.

Thanks to all for your responses. I am impressed with the willingness to provide information etc.

I am attaching another photo. Would you say that was a lanyard too on the young chappie on the right?

Excuse my lack of knowledge due to being an absolute novice, but what does BEF stand for?

If Fred died on 30th March, does that mean the battalion never got to the front line, but were residing in the background, and am I of the correct understanding that once the battlion decreased in size they would then merge with others, hence I should be looking at 7th Brigade, 25th Division. I don't understand this system......help?

Mark even a more coincidence, I still work at AZ and have run past Slade Farm at lunch-times too, it's on the right hand side as you run down the slope heading back to AZ - a small undeveloped small-holding. Fred and his parents lived at Gawsworth, but when their only son died, they moved to Slade Lane and let their only daughter and husband run the farm at Gawsworth.

[old-ted]

Excuse my lack of knowledge due to being an absolute novice, but what does BEF stand for?

British Expeditionary Force

Regards and welcome to the forum

John

[MBrockway]

If Fred died on 30th March, does that mean the battalion never got to the front line, but were residing in the background ...

Alison,

Inconclusive: it could mean that 10/Cheshire were still in the rear ("Lines of Communication" area in the jargon) and Fred took ill with a fatal medical problem or some sort of accident, OR it could mean that 10/Cheshires had already moved to the Front from where Fred was evacuated to 43rd Casualty Clearing Station ("CCS") where he died - either of wounds sustained at the Front, or from sickness, or from a combination of both!

If you have a Search of the main Long, Long Trail website, there's a good article on the process of evacuating the wounded from the Front.

One of the Cheshire Regiment specialists should be able to tell us about the movements of 10/Cheshires & answer this issue quite easily.

and am I of the correct understanding that once the battlion decreased in size they would then merge with others, hence I should be looking at 7th Brigade, 25th Division. I don't understand this system......help?

Not usually - normally the battalion would be rebuilt from fresh drafts sent from the UK. These could be raw recruits or experienced troops returning after recovering from wounds (not necessarily former members of the battalion either). Each battalion normally kept back a proportion of the men from any likely Action so there would be a kernel of experienced men around which to rebuild the unit.

Some battalions had their men replaced many times over during the course of the war.

Exceptionally, a unit might suffer such devastating losses that it would be disbanded, or merged into another unit. This happened particularly after the German offensives in Spring 1918.

Mark even a more coincidence, I still work at AZ and have run past Slade Farm at lunch-times too, it's on the right hand side as you run down the slope heading back to AZ - a small undeveloped small-holding. Fred and his parents lived at Gawsworth, but when their only son died, they moved to Slade Lane and let their only daughter and husband run the farm at Gawsworth.

Ha! That is freaky! I left AZ at Xmas 2007 - shame this didn't come up this time last year: I could have popped down the corridor for a chat!

Cheers,

Mark

[MBrockway]

Alison,

I've taken the liberty of starting another Topic:

10th Battalion Cheshire Regiment, whereabouts on 30th March 1916

in the hopes of attracting the attention of the Cheshires experts! They're not likely to spot this one here.

Feel free to take it over

Cheers,

Mark