CWGC graves in UK churchyards

[burlington]

Yesterday I came across a couple of what appeared to be CWGC WW2 graves in a churchyard in Mid Wales

The headstones didn't look particularly well kept and were not even vertical.

Who has the responsibility to maintain these? CWGC or the churchyard authorities?

[jimmyjames]

My brother visited Chatteris (Meeks) Cemetery yesterday and was dismayed to find a couple in CWGC headstones surrounded by overgrowth. He has alerted the CWGC to the neglect.

Regards

Jimmy

[Terry Denham]

Ultimately, CWGC has responsibility for war graves which are not privately owned. Privately owned graves can have either private headstones or CWGC official headstones.

CWGC usually has an agreement with the church or cemetery authority for them to care for war graves. Sometimes a miminal sum is paid for this purpose.

Any graves with CWGC headstones which look in poor condition should be reported to the CWGC UK Area Office in Leamington Spa (not to Maidenhead). Email them at ukaoffice@cwgc.org

CWGC headstones are inspected for condition etc by CWGC roughly every three years.

I have to say that those in the photos do not look to be in poor condition compared to some of the thousands I have looked at in some UK churchyards. Perhaps the camera does not show up the true condition. The surrounding undergrowth will be the responsibility of the cemetery owner not CWGC - though they can bring pressure to bear.

CWGC have the most trouble with cemeteries in the UK. Those overseas are relatively easy to maintain by comparison! It is us in the UK who neglect such things and perpetrate the worst vandalism.

[burlington]

Ultimately, CWGC has responsibility for war graves which are not privately owned. Privately owned graves can have either private headstones or CWGC official headstones.

CWGC usually has an agreement with the church or cemetery authority for them to care for war graves. Sometimes a miminal sum is paid for this purpose.

Any graves with CWGC headstones which look in poor condition should be reported to the CWGC UK Area Office in Leamington Spa (not to Maidenhead). Email them at ukaoffice@cwgc.org

CWGC headstones are inspected for condition etc by CWGC roughly every three years.

I have to say that those in the photos do not look to be in poor condition compared to some of the thousands I have looked at in some UK churchyards. Perhaps the camera does not show up the true condition. The surrounding undergrowth will be the responsibility of the cemetery owner not CWGC - though they can bring pressure to bear.

CWGC have the most trouble with cemeteries in the UK. Those overseas are relatively easy to maintain by comparison! It is us in the UK who neglect such things and perpetrate the worst vandalism.

Terry

I didn't take any photos of these headstones because I did not think of it at the time.

When the snow melts, will go back, photo and post.

Regards

Martin

[Terry_Reeves]

The CWGC do respond quickly to reports of damaged headstones.

A couple of years ago I was contacted by a member of a family history society about a damaged headstone in a local cemetery. I e-mailed the Leamington office, who replied within 24hrs and the the damage was repaired within a few weeks.

Terry Reeves

[markinbelfast]

Milltown cem. in Belfast is a neglected overgrown shambles of a place...I contacted the cwgc and said that I'd tend the graves for free if they wanted....within days the war graves were mown and very tidy...something must have got the ball rolling!

The city cem. have their war graves stored in another graveyards shed until the locals can be trusted to behave themselves.

[jimmyjames]

The headstones shown in my photo above were in good condition - it was the surrounding jungle like growth which actually prevented my brother from taking a decent snap of the headstone he travelled from Cheltenham to Chatteris to obtain.

I hope as Terry says, that the CWGC will bring the appropriate pressure to bear!!

Regards

Jimmy

[Malcolm]

When doing the Local Memorial book I found three men who are buried in the local cemetery but had no link with the village - a training camp was nearby. They are included in the book as they are, and have been for a long time, resident and are far from their home towns. The graves are tended by the Church ground keepers but the headstones are CWGC responsibility. I recently did the RN graves (Rosyth Naval Dockyard) in Dunfermline for a PAL and they are really well looked after as the groundsmen are all ex-services. A quick look in your local cemetery would be a good move for PALS to check. An email to CWGC is all that seems required if you do find any in a sorry state.

Aye

Malcolm

ps. We all hope so Mark, Miltown Cemetery had some bad images not so long ago.

[Myrtle]

When I was searching for a WW1 grave in Highgate Cemetery, I not only had to pay to go in to the place but I found that the area where the grave was situated was completely grown over with high bushes, brambles and dense foliage which I would not have been able to clear, even if I had taken a scythe along with me. When I enquired about how people, such as relatives of the deceased, were supposed to locate these overgrown graves I was told that they could pay £25 and have the access cleared !!

[john w.]

It seems that we have an image of the War Graves in Flanders etc to set the standard and dont realise the difference between overseas and home cemeteries.

There also seems to be the problem of who owns the grave, as there would be no distinguishing marks, especially if there was a CWGC headstone.

My local church has some and I have photos, but wouldnt know how far gone they would have to be before contacting the CWGC.

My dad's grave in Morpeth is fine though so I do know what a good one looks like

John

[Terry Denham]

The UK is the real problem country for CWGC.

War graves in the UK did not originally come under the remit of CWGC but were added in the early 20s. There were no laws passed to give them any special rights within the UK as there had been in many foreign countries. Grave ownership is often in private (now long forgotten) hands.

The Commission purchased many thousands of plots but had to live with the fact that thousands more casualties were in private graves over which they had no jurisdiction. In addition, the relatives had been allowed (understandably) to erect private memorials if they wished. In time these memorials would fall into disrepair (a responsibility of the NOK, not the cemetery owner).

When you add the fact that many cemeteries are owned by local authorities who have different attitudes to their responsibilities but all of whom are short of money, you get neglect, wildlife sanctuaries being created to avoid maintenance and the clearance of headstones to save money and supposed health/safety issues. The churches are no different.

Then we have the worst examples of vandalism of war graves in this country. There is a great wail of condemnation when some idiot daubs paint on a headstone in France but hardly a murmur when the same thing happens in the UK - which it does on an almost daily basis somewhere.

The threat from the odd motorway to our cemeteries in Belgium is nothing compared to the threat the 170,000 war graves in the UK risk every day.

Sorry to bang on about this (and I know many of our cemeteries are in a perfect state of repair) but we should put our own house in order before we get indignant about the treatment of the war graves overseas which are generally in excellent condition.

[john w.]

Terry

Couldnt agree more

John