Temp or Act'g Ranks

[ddycher]

All

I have an example where a substantial 2nd Lieut is Temp Lieut / Temp Capt / Act'g Major / Act'g Lt. Col. in command of a Bn. Was this uncommon ? Why would someone be trusted up the chain of command so far without being formally promoted ?

Any ideas ?

Regards

Dave

[Muerrisch]

I think you mean substantive?

The details of your example would be of interest.

When shattered battalions counted heads after a disastrous day [such as ocurred October/ November 1914 for example], it was not unknown for a 2Lt to be the only officer standing ..... whether or not he was given the job titles that went with it.

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Dave

Most wartime first commissions, and the majority of wartime promotions, werev "temporary" which, in effect, meant "for the duration". "Acting" rank was conferred on officers deputising upwards for relatively short periods: for longer periods they were usually given the higher rank on a "temporary" basis.

Travers Clarke, who in 1918 was Quartermaster-General of the BEF in France, was actually a substantive major but a temporary lieutenant-general.

Other regular officers reverted to their substantive rank after the war and, in at least one case, a former divisional commander was passed over for promotion to substantive major-general! The source for this referece does not name him but it may have been Hugh Jeudwine, who commanded 55 Div.

Ron

[ddycher]

Grumpy your quite right substantive is what I meant.

The gentleman in question was William Edward Maskell his war history as I have it todate includes :

 Gazetted temp Lieut in 11th Devons

• 8th December 1914.

 Gazetted a Temp. Lt. to be temp. Capt. whilst comdg. a Co., T.F.

• 8th Aug.1915.

MIC in the National Archives shows him serving as a Lieut and Capt with the Manchester Regt before moving to the Lanc’s Fusiliers.

 Gazetted to temp Major whilst employed at Headquarters of a TF Battalion of Lanc. Fusiliers.

• 22nd August 1916

 Gazetted as temp. Lieut. / Temp Capt. / Act’g Major / Act’g Lt. Colonel whilst in command of a TF Btn, Lancs Fus

• 27th September 1916

 Gazetted from temp. Capt. To Capt.

• 3rd December 1916

 Gazetted as appointed to the Training Reserve as temp. Major and 2nd in command

• 23rd September 1918

 Gazetted as retiring with the rank of Lieut. Colonel and with an OBE on reaching compulsory retirement age.

• 30th January 1920

Your thoughts on why his substantive rank may have lagged behind would be appreciated.

Ron - thanks for your points. Have to admit I struggle when differentiating temp / acting and brevet ranks. I have followed numerous threads on the subject on the forum with out getting much more than it is a local phenomena depending upon suitable more experienced candidate being available. Lt Col Maskell above intrigues me as age / experience was obviously not the reason and his ranks seem to have caught up with him by the time he retired.. Any ideas ?

Regards

Dave

[Muerrisch]

The 'temp' bit can be more-or-less ignored: the commission was temporary, ie he was not a regular officer, as I understand it.

May I hazard a guess that he was not a youngster?

[Muerrisch]

By the way, brevet was NOT in any way temporary or acting in the British army of our period.

From my notes:

Brevet, Honorary, Local or Temporary, rank: a collection of information from reputable British sources.

For convenience, Brevet henceforth abbreviated Bt. Local as L, Temporary as T. and Honorary as Hon. My editorial comments in [brackets] thus.

Queen’s Regulations 1873. Bt. field officers [major, lt. col., col.]doing duty with their regiments as captains to wear uniform according to their rank in the army; to do duty as field officers in garrison etc. [in context, army rank seems to that awarded by the Bt.]

Rank, Badges etc by Otley Lane Perry 1888. Bt. rank is permanent army rank as regards precedence but with pay of rank next below that indicated by the Bt. ….. [if I read this right, a captain with two brevet promotions would be paid as a major but ….]

Hon. Rank gives same advantages as enjoyed by Corresponding rank [ie equivalent Naval ranks] and Perry lists 17 appointments carrying Hon. Rank of Major, for example Chaplains 3rd class, Staff Paymaster

Queen’s regulations 1885. Agrees QR1873 and adds that captains holding Bt. rank as field officers are to perform regimental duties according to their regimental rank [in context, as captains]

Manual Military Law 1899. ……officers …… all alike are officers of HM land forces and have army rank as such, which may or may not be the same as their regimental rank ………….. [a corollary of this is that a Major, Bt. Lt Col doing duty on a Court Martial will outrank all Majors and below and therefore preside]

Royal Pay Warrant 1914. Substantive rank shall include all rank except army, brevet, honorary and local or temporary rank. [three points here 1. any comfortable thought that Bt. and army rank were the same is dispelled, 2. a following paragraph seems to suggest that regimental rank is the same as substantive rank, and 3. a reasonable working definition of substantive rank is ‘one that cannot be lost except by sentence of Court Martial’].

QM commissions were exactly that, and not combatant. QMs were not entitled to command mixed bodies of troops in action. They were eligible for Hon. Ranks as Lieutenant, with subsequent Hon. rises even to Lt Col. depending on length of service and merit. One well known example is QM & Hon Major Harry Yates, MC, 2RWF.

Bt. promotion may be given to captains[ after at least 6 years service], majors and lt cols for distinguished service [in the field or otherwise] [note that these are the only British brevet awards, unlike some other nations]

Kings Regulations 1914. adds to previous QR by noting that specially meritorious service may be recognised by accelerated promotion “usually by Bt.” Regular officers to take precedence over SR, who in turn take precedence over TF, of same nominal rank.

Bt. rank will not exempt an officer from taking the usual examinations for promotion [these exams differed according to arm of service]

Military Origins by Gordon 1971 is probably too “out of period” to be much use, he says little to disagree with the above on Bt. Rank and adds that Acting rank became Temporary rank after three months.

To summarise: Local and Temporary do appear to be synonymous, Brevet and Honorary are most definitely not synonymous, army rank and Bt. rank seem almost synonymous. I know that an officer doing a company commander’s job in an acting capacity was automatically given temporary promotion [and the rate for the job] after 30 days, and I know that the Army List used the same symbol both for temporary promotions and temporary commissions, so the only rank where we know what the asterisk means is 2Lt, in that this must mean Temporary commission.

One last thought, from studying RWF Army Lists 1895 to 1914. Promotion was by seniority but conditional on the ability to pass the exams, with small seniority adjustments made from time to time for less-than-obvious reasons and published in the London Gazette. I can find no instance where possession of a Bt. allowed an officer to queue-jump, although such an analysis is made difficult by the tendency for a fair few senior captains to have acquired a Bt. by the time they were near the top of the list. There are, however, examples of officers “parachuted in” to the regiment at Major rank, holding Bt. Lt col, and rising to lt col in the regiment before departing, with a Bt. colonelcy, to the staff. There seems to have been a mutual “deconfliction” by senior captains and senior majors, who could read a seniority list with an eye to possible further promotion. If one had little chance [there were only two lt col posts for regular officers in the whole regiment, with possibly a third for the SR battalion] then one could take the money and go on to half pay or pension.

After the war started, all bets were off, and many things changed ….. perhaps we could start to list them?

Please, if any errors detected, or Pals can add to this, I would be grateful.

[Desdichado]

In late 1917 in Le Havre, there was an almighty row between British and Australian troops in which many were injured. The MFP broke it up and a number of men were arrested. In one of the British camps, the "Sergeant" whose responsibility it was to log all passes was actually a Corporal, as well as a drunk. His direct superior was an (acting) Lieutenant who was oblivious to what was going on. Actual Sergeants wrote out their own passes and ignored the Corporal, believing they outranked him as he was only acting. At the subsequent enquiry, the C/O carpeted the subaltern, who lost his temporary rank, and the Corporal, who was busted back down to Private.

[Ian Riley]

Other regular officers reverted to their substantive rank after the war and, in at least one case, a former divisional commander was passed over for promotion to substantive major-general! The source for this referece does not name him but it may have been Hugh Jeudwine, who commanded 55 Div.

Ron

Ron,

At the risk of running off topic,

It's probably not Hugh Jeudwine, certainly not as far as actual rank goes. I have just searched the London Gazette between 1 Jamuary 1918 and 31 December 1930. He is shown as a substantive Major General in an entry relating to 15 March 1919 (although it is not clear whether he is taking up a post here or relinquishing it), his rank as given has no temporary or acting indications whilst others show these. Similarly on 21 August 1919 (appointment as Croix de Guerre).

He is promoted temporary Lieutenant-General 1 April 1921.

On 6 February 1923, he appears as 'Major-General (now Lieutenant-General)' when relinquishing 'the appointment as divisional commander in the temporary rank of Lieutenant-General on 17 July 1922' and is shown as being promoted to substantive Lieutenant-General on 3 January 1923. He then occupied the post of Director General of the Territorial Army from 1 October 1923 until 1 October 1927 on retirement.

I can't find an obituary in The Times, possibly because he I think he died during WW2 in 1942:perhaps there were limitations on space. Next port of call will probably be the Royal Artillery Journal. However I have clipped this from the King's College London site

55 (West Lancashire) Div 1916-1918; Lancashire Div, British Army on the Rhine (BAOR), Germany 1919; Chief of General Staff, British Army on the Rhine (BAOR), Germany 1919; Commander, 5 Div, Ireland 1919-1922; Director General of Territorial Army 1923-1927; retired 1927

I would not have thought that a division in Ireland in the period up to 1922 would have been a quiet posting, possibly recognised by his promotion to temporary Lieutenant-General whilst in that post.

Ian

[Granite-Yorkie]

Grumpy, I would guess that as Captains were tried upon reaching the age of 45 that he would have been born in 1875- so he'd have been 39 when he got his commission. I believe that it was usual, during WW1, to grant regular commissions in the rank of Captain to Temporary/TF/SR/Colonial officers over the age of 25/26.