Cpl. 500. J P Houlahan

[Rob Bulloch]

Cpl Houlahan 1st Bn Newfoundland Regiment, is buried in the above cemetery, my details of this soldier are only whats on his CWGC gravestone. I know that the cut off date for commemoration was 1921. My question is, if this soldier was wounded on the 1st of July 1916 and never recovered from his wounds albeit after 1921 would he still not qualify.

PS Sorry if this question has been asked before

Regards to the Forum Rob.

[Terry Denham]

Rob

No - he would not.

Nobody can qualify for war grave status after the cut-off date of 31.08.21. (or 31.12.47 for WW2)

[mhifle]

Here is his Medal Card

Regards Mark

[Terry Denham]

In fact, Cpl Houlihan (who died in 1925) does not have a CWGC headstone (technically). He is listed by CWGC as Non-World War Dead in CWGC Care (Incidental & Conducive).

This means that his grave is not an official war grave but it is one where CWGC has no agreement with anybody to care for it but, it would be difficult for them not to care for it - usually because it is in a war grave plot and the grave was there before they took over care of the plot. There are a small number of graves in this classification where it would detract from the war graves if CWGC did not care for the grave.

[Rob Bulloch]

Thanks Terry you must get feed up answering the same question.

Mark thanks for the medal card, Is this from Ancestors ?

Cheers Rob.

PS. Thank You both very much for the helpfull information. Rob.

[mhifle]

Yes it is from Ancestry.co.uk

Regards Mark

[mhifle]

This is from

http://www.nfarchives.net/

Regiment: Royal Newfoundland Regiment

Regimental Number: 500

Name and Rank: CPL HOULAHAN, James Patrick

Draft: 1

Enlist Date: NR

Age on enlistment: NR

Date of Death: 2/26/1925

Address: St. John's

Service Record: NR

Regards Mark

[mhifle]

JAMES PATRICK HOULAHAN Reg. No. 500

Enlisted. Sept. 14, 1914; Lance Corporal, Aug 18, 1915; British Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, Aug. 20, 1915; British Expeditionary Force, March 14, 1916; Wounded, Beaumont Hamel, July I, 1916; Invalided to England, July 7, 1916; Attached to Pay and Record Office, London, Dec. 20, 1916; Admitted to 3rd London General Hospital, Wandsworth, June 19, 1917; Discharged to duty, Nov. 30, 1917; Attached to Depot, Ayr, Dec. 6, 1917; Discharged, U. K., medically unfit, Sept. 17, 1918.

Regards Mark

[Rob Bulloch]

Mark. The addition of the photograph of Cpl Houlahan is absolutely brilliant.

Many thanks Rob.

[SiegeGunner]

In fact, Cpl Houlihan (who died in 1925) does not have a CWGC headstone (technically). He is listed by CWGC as Non-World War Dead in CWGC Care (Incidental & Conducive).

This means that his grave is not an official war grave but it is one where CWGC has no agreement with anybody to care for it but, it would be difficult for them not to care for it - usually because it is in a war grave plot and the grave was there before they took over care of the plot.

Houlahan's grave is within the Newfoundland Plot at Earlsfield Cemetery. His headstone is on the right-hand side at the rear of the plot, with its back towards the memorial cross, at 90° to the other headstones (mirrored on the left-hand side by the headstone of Nurse B Bartlett, the next most recent burial in the plot). Houlahan's headstone is of the CWGC Non-World War pattern, with cut-out top corners.

[SiegeGunner]

The additional information posted about Houlahan certainly answers a number of questions that Rob and I posed ourselved some months ago.

It would be interesting to discover the nature of his wounds, which were evidently severe enough to preclude his return to front-line service and persistent enough to require subsequent treatment, but not sufficiently debilitating to prevent him from being returned to duty before his eventual medical discharge in 1918. He clearly chose to remain in the UK, as his MIC shows him residing here in 1921, and he died here in 1925. Perhaps he had acquired a wife or sweetheart along the way? In any event, someone thought it fitting for him to be buried alongside his former comrades in the Newfoundland Plot (about two-thirds of whom appear from their dates of death to have been wounded at B-H), and it seems equally appropriate that his grave has come under the care of the CWGC.

Mick

[Terry Denham]

On a real anorak point.....

Houlahan's headstone is actually provided by CWGC at their cost. You can tell by the shape of the curve between the clipped corners at the top.

Non-World War headstones provided by MoD, other Commonwealth governments or private individuals have a different curvature between the clipped corners (RAF Non-World War stones do not have the clipped corners though).

See Post No.13 onwards for pics.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...eadstone+shapes

[SiegeGunner]

As a Newfoundland veteran who remained in the UK after the end of the War, I wonder whether Houlahan perhaps worked for the IWGC or at least acted in some semi-official capacity in relation to the commemoration of Newfoundland casualties? In addition to discovering the nature of his wounds, it would be interesting to see his death certificate, as he may have died of something entirely unconnected with his wounds, and might therefore have been active, although partially disabled in some way, between 1918 and 1925, rather than lingering for 7 years before succumbing to his war wounds. Rob and I had considered dire possibilities such as him being so horribly disfigured that he did not want to go home, or so mentally traumatised that he had lived out the remainder of his life in an institution (of which there was a suitable example a short distance from both the 3rd London General Hospital and the Cemetery). The information that has emerged clearly dispels those notions, and it would be nice, now, to discover what he did in fact do between 1918 and his death.

Would the CWGC's records say why they gave him an official Non-World War headstone, Terry?

Mick

[Terry Denham]

Mick

This may sound pedantic or nit-picking but it can be a little complicated.

Houlahan does not have a Non-World War Grave Grave in CWGC Care. They are graves for which CWGC has a maintenance agreement for payment or reciprocal arrangement with another authority (most often with MoD).

Houlahan's grave is a Non-World War Grave in CWGC Care (Incidental and Conducive). That means that they have no agreement with anyone for its maintenance. It just happens to be in a plot for which they have responsibility for official war graves. It was there when they took over the plot. They have no legal obligation to care for the grave but do so because not to do so would detract from the look of the war graves.

Therefore, they have taken it upon themselves (with proper authorisation from their legal and finance depts) to care for it - including provision of a headstone. Had he been buried outside this plot, they would not be caring for the grave or providing a headstone. Having decided to care for the grave, they have provided their standard Non-World War headstone.

Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?

[Heid the Ba]

Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?

So for most purposes he is CWGC, except he isn't. Got it.

As always, CWGC do the right thing.

[chrisharley9]

Waters muddied - brain confused - an act of compassion on behalf of the CWGC - right thing to do

Chris

[SiegeGunner]

Does that muddy the waters sufficiently?

Indubitably, Terry! Many thanks for the comprehensive explanation

The burial of Nurse Bartlett in 1918 at rightangles to the other graves and in line with the side of the memorial cross left the plot unsymmetrical, and that, I presume, is how/why Houlahan came to buried in the 'vacant space' on the opposite side of the cross in 1925. A smart move by whoever arranged that.

There are some Canadian CWGC headstones outside the Canadian Plot (actually a border) at Earlsfield, but as far as I know there are no other Newfoundland CWGC headstones elsewhere in the cemetery.

Mick

[Rob Bulloch]

Thanks Terry for this information, as Mick said it clears up a lot of speculation we had about Cpl Houlahan. Thanks again Mark for the photograph and the other information on him.

Cheers Rob.