David Lamb Posted 5 August , 2008 Share Posted 5 August , 2008 Hello, I am new to this forum and trying to resear my great grandfather for my Dad. I have what I believe to be the correct death record from the war graves commission below: GRAY Initials: T J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Serjeant Regiment/Service: Northumberland Fusiliers Unit Text: 27th (Tyneside Irish) Bn. Date of Death: 25/05/1915 Service No: 27/298 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: U. "C." 11145. Cemetery: SUNDERLAND (SOUTHWICK) CEMETERY He died I believe in Flanders. However, I have to inconsistencies that I would like help to understand. Firstly - the enclosed war pensions record is I am 99% sure the right person. "He only spent a short time in the force from 17/09/1914 to 30/10/1914 ( total of 44 days) Discharged 30/10/1914 "not likely to become an effecient soldier (varicose veins)" rank - Private". The statement of service number has a 19543 struck out and replaced with 12430. Are these two records for different people or did he return to service.( The death record is the right name,age and he is buried in the local cemetary ) Secondly - On background research on the web the Tyneside Irish 27th Bt were in Alnwick barracks in may 1915 or were they at the second battle for Ypres as other research suggests. I am awaiting a copy of a book dedicated to the Tyneside Irish but any help would be much appreciated. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 5 August , 2008 Share Posted 5 August , 2008 David, Welcome to the Forum, Soldiers Died CD gives Thomas James Gray as being born Southwick Durham and enlisting South Shields and died 25-3-1915 (as against killed or died of wounds), he must have died at home if buried in a Sunderland cemetery, no soldiers to my knowledge were repatriated for burial if they died abroad, some officers were very early on in the war. The pension record may be his, and having been discharged enlisted again at a later date in the Northumberland Fus. Hope this helps. Regards Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 5 August , 2008 Share Posted 5 August , 2008 David, It looks as though you are looking at two different people here and you may have to give us some more information to go and also try and post the records you've already got so that comparisons can be made. In the first place have you got the right name of the person you're looking at? The reason I ask is that the Sgt buried in Sunderland is 27/298 Sgt Thomas James Gray and he died at home, having never served overseas. His home address at the time was 19 Shakespear St, Southwick, Sunderland. Do you have any photo's of the person you're researching so we can look at their badges to determine which regiment he actually served in? An awful lot of Grays served in the Army and a lot of them in both the Northumberlands & Durham Light Infantry. The records that you have seem to be for someone else and not Sgt Gray. His number would be in the top left hand corner and a home address would have been in side his documents, if reasonably intact. Once we have some leads we'll try and sort it out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 5 August , 2008 Share Posted 5 August , 2008 The service numbers on the pension records are 19573 Durham Light Inf struck out and replaced with 12430 East Yorkshire Regt as Graham has posted, two different men I believe. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lamb Posted 5 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2008 I cannot post the document due to the 100kb limit on the server but I think you may have quickly solved the mystery. The pension doument second page has the address 19 Shakespear St which is the address of the family I am tracing. He was only 36-37. It is unusual that there are different dates of death - one march and one may. Unfortunately his death led to a family of 4 children being split up as he was already a widower with no family to look after them. I trying to race the other 3 members through Ancestry.com . It must have been reasonably common in the war for this to happen but do you know which organisation might have dealt with the matter - Salvation Army/ Home office? Thanks for your help David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lamb Posted 5 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2008 I cannot post the document due to the 100kb limit on the server but I think you may have quickly solved the mystery. The pension doument second page has the address 19 Shakespear St which is the address of the family I am tracing. He was only 36-37. It is unusual that there are different dates of death - one march and one may. Unfortunately his death led to a family of 4 children being split up as he was already a widower with no family to look after them. I trying to race the other 3 members through Ancestry.com . It must have been reasonably common in the war for this to happen but do you know which organisation might have dealt with the matter - Salvation Army/ Home office? Thanks for your help David He must have re-enlisted with the Tyneside Brigades after his discharge in 1914. Does it give a cause of death on the CD records? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphjd Posted 5 August , 2008 Share Posted 5 August , 2008 David, Afraid the Soldiers Died only states "died" his death is registered in Sunderland June qtr of 1915 age 38 vol 10a page 823. His cause of death etc will be on his death certificate which you should be able to obtain from the Sunderland registrars office for about £7. Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyneside Chinaman Posted 5 August , 2008 Share Posted 5 August , 2008 Hi David You will find him in the Newcastle Chronicle as enlisting on 14 January 1915. He wouldn't have been at Alnwick only the 24th went there. The 27th were left at home until the 24th moved to Alnwick. The 27th were then called up and quartered in Dunn's Buildings in Newcastle that was after St Patrick's Day 1915. So in effect he wasn't in uniform for long. He is not listed in "Irish Heroes in the War" as by the time those list were compiled he was deceased. regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lamb Posted 5 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2008 Hi David You will find him in the Newcastle Chronicle as enlisting on 14 January 1915. He wouldn't have been at Alnwick only the 24th went there. The 27th were left at home until the 24th moved to Alnwick. The 27th were then called up and quartered in Dunn's Buildings in Newcastle that was after St Patrick's Day 1915. So in effect he wasn't in uniform for long. He is not listed in "Irish Heroes in the War" as by the time those list were compiled he was deceased. regards John many thanks John - I've ordered the book and I think I will find it a fascinating read even without him listed. I am only a youngster at 32 but when I look at my 3 boys I have to wonder what awful times all the families went through. I've popped a request in to the Sunderland Registrar for the death certificate of Thomas. Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 28 September , 2008 Share Posted 28 September , 2008 Hi David, have you got a family tree posted anywhere for the Lambs/Grays. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lamb Posted 28 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2008 Hi David, have you got a family tree posted anywhere for the Lambs/Grays. Alan Alan, Yes on genesreunited and ancestry. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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