Old soldier's watch - details of him wanted!

[oskypuss]

Hi,

I recently became the proud owner of an old trench watch, engraved with the initials 'TIW' on the reverse. Inside the back cover, someone has engraved, 'Thos Ivor Williams' and then an address '18 Seaview Terrace Swansea.' This address has had a line scratched through it, to be replaced by 'Emmanuel vicarage, Cheltenham.' There is also an inscription 'From G.E.T. May 1917.'

I looked him up on the CWGC website, and though I found 2 Thomas Ivor Williamses, I found the following which seems to be the one:

Name: WILLIAMS, THOMAS IVOR

Initials: T I

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Rifleman

Regiment/Service: London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade)

Unit Text: 5th Bn.

Age: 19

Date of Death: 15/01/1918

Service No: 303464

Additional information: Son of Dora Forsdike (formerly Williams), of Plastirion, Porthcawl, Glam., and the late Rees Walter Williams.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. P. 40.

Cemetery: LONGUENESSE (ST. OMER) SOUVENIR CEMETERY

I'm intrigued about him, but have searched the National Archives and can't find any further information (though I may not have done this properly).

Could anyone help with information on where he might have fought and died as part of the LRB? How might he have ended up in Longuenesse cemetery - is he likely to have died in a casualty clearing station?

I'd be grateful for any help or pointers anyone can provide - thank you!

JB.

[sotonmate]

JB

Longuenesse is one of the Cemeteries for the four General Hospitals of St OMER,there were no CCSs or Hospitals in Longuenesse until after your subject died.

There is another take on this watch. TIW survived the War and became a Priest,or lived with his parents who lived in a Vicarage, in Cheltenham. How did you decide upon the London Regt,was it solely on the CWGC info ?

WO372 (Medal Indexes) has no entry for a TI Williams,one for a TIC Williams (Major in the RFA) 2,103 for Thomas Williams (with second names also,but I resisted the temptation of scrolling down them all!)and 106 for Ivor Williams (also with second names).

Have you considered a look at the Absent Voters List,Swansea (if there is one existing),for 1918,you have a street name,and also a possible check on the Cheltenham one too if no success in Swansea,this just in case your subject was alive and kicking then and was not the occupant of the Longuenesse grave ?

If you have other evidence to show he was 5 Londons they were at the Battle of Cambrai from 20 Nov to 3 Dec 1917,his Div (56) were counter-attacked with phosgene gas,and it is possible that he was affected and removed to St Omer,not a great distance to the NW of the battle zone (but well behind our lines at the time),thus your assumption could then be well-founded.

Enjoy the search !

Sotonmate

[brett361975]

A link to the MIC of Thomas Ivor Williams London Regiment, he also had another initial, of R, so this sadly may NOT be your man.

Thomas Ivor Williams

[brett361975]

I have done a very brief N/A search for Thomas I Williams and found three.

This link will show three Thomas Ivor Williams, two being in Welsh Regiments and one being in the Royal Army Medical Corps.

T I Williams X3

If you are lucky someone may do an Ancestry search for you and may be able to pin one of the T I Williams down to an address for you.

Regards

Brett

[devonmaid]

JB

This is his MIC from the National Archives but i can't find any records for him on Ancestry at the moment.

Description Medal card of Williams, Thomas I R

Corps Regiment No Rank

London Regiment 303464 Private

Date 1914-1920

Catalogue reference WO 372/21

Ellie

[NigelS]

Whether the watch belonged to this man or not, the 1/5Bn LRB weren't in action at that time, The History of the LRB 1859-1919 gives: "on 15th january rain came down, and on the next day the batallion marched in the wet to Tinques and trained to Maroeuil..." Prior to that they are given at being at Frevilliers (about 15 miles as the crow flies from the cemetery at Longuenesse) "...ten happy days were spent there, the principal duty to shovel the snow off the roads, eight miles of this being on record as being one day's work"; not knowing the cause of this man's death, it could be that he died of wounds received some time earlier, or of illness.

NigelS

[auchonvillerssomme]

How do you know he was a casualty?

[oskypuss]

Gents,

Thank you so much for taking the time to look into this and post a reply - they're very much appreciated.

I guess the only thing to do is to get an ancestry check done, otherwise I'll always be wondering!

Thanks again,

JB.